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Thread: In search of SCALE, the ever amazing ESL57.

  1. #11
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

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    I never fit subsonic filtering on any phono stage I build. I'm dead against it!

  2. #12
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,801
    I'm Martin.

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    Surprised by that. Doesn't having to deal with the low frequency sludge put a strain on the amplifier?
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  3. #13
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Surprised by that. Doesn't having to deal with the low frequency sludge put a strain on the amplifier?
    Not really no. I'm surprised you're surprised! I wouldn't entertain a phono stage with subsonic filtering! and before you ask, cos the filter is a bad idea for the SQ.

  4. #14
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 17,801
    I'm Martin.

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    Even if it only filters below 20Hz?

    The only reason I'm surprised is because I don't know or understand the technicalities, just going off what I've read.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Sony X505ES CD Player * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  5. #15
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Even if it only filters below 20Hz?

    The only reason I'm surprised is because I don't know or understand the technicalities, just going off what I've read.
    The lowest frequencies in music would be the 16Hz from pipe organ..... This coincides with the highest arm cart resonance frequencies. Can't remove one without the other! More generally, a filter at 20Hz would start to effect LF phase from about 200Hz down and if the filter turnover is at 20Hz it will probably be a touch down at even 40Hz. I find this noticeable.
    The subsonics we would like to remove are just too close to the lowest bass frequency we want to keep at the end of the day, and the steeper we make the filter the worse in non linear phase, transient response and ringing the filter will be

    Some will counter with Doppler distortion and varying position of voice coil affecting speaker linearity.... but I know which compromise I prefer Bass always sounds lacking in ultimate extension and somehow just not quite right to me when a subsonic filter is in place.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: vancouver

    Posts: 642
    I'm danilo.

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    Interesting info.
    Once had a unit with subsonic filtering (switchable) I never liked it, finding that when the filter was on Bass seemed as gelded.
    In truth I didn't keep that thing long as it wasn't overly good in any respect.
    At least now I have some inkling as to the why.
    My audio bits: Thorens / diy phono, CD/dvd player(s), diy pre, F6, Tannoy Golds in my boxes / my xovers, and of course all strung together with basic diy Wires
    Lots of Cd's, yet more audio files, a couple of hundred semi worn Lps.

  7. #17
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danilo View Post
    Interesting info.
    Once had a unit with subsonic filtering (switchable) I never liked it, finding that when the filter was on Bass seemed as gelded.
    In truth I didn't keep that thing long as it wasn't overly good in any respect.
    At least now I have some inkling as to the why.
    A good description of the subjective effect!

  8. #18
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 16,056
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    The lowest frequencies in music would be the 16Hz from pipe organ..... This coincides with the highest arm cart resonance frequencies. Can't remove one without the other! More generally, a filter at 20Hz would start to effect LF phase from about 200Hz down and if the filter turnover is at 20Hz it will probably be a touch down at even 40Hz. I find this noticeable.
    The subsonics we would like to remove are just too close to the lowest bass frequency we want to keep at the end of the day, and the steeper we make the filter the worse in non linear phase, transient response and ringing the filter will be

    Some will counter with Doppler distortion and varying position of voice coil affecting speaker linearity.... but I know which compromise I prefer Bass always sounds lacking in ultimate extension and somehow just not quite right to me when a subsonic filter is in place.
    So all your gear is DC-coupled?
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

  9. #19
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    So all your gear is DC-coupled?
    Some is, some isn't. Completely irrelevant. It's usually flat to below 1Hz even if capacitor coupled.

  10. #20
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Co. Durham

    Posts: 1,971
    I'm Stephen.

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    Have you ever tried adding the Neumann constant to a phono stage? I tried years ago, but can't remember what the result was.

    Sent from my CUBOT_NOTE_S using Tapatalk

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