Which country has the best hi fi industry in the world

[walpurgis]

Oh there are, at the moment anyway, quite a few people "coming to me"... Business is on the up and up

That's good Jez. Glad to hear things are improving.

[walpurgis]

I look on the shop websites to see what customers say

User reviews are hopeless and not to be relied on at all. The 'reviews' are the opinions of people who could just be pleased with a new purchase because it seems better than the last piece of junk they bought. Their terms of reference could be anything or nothing.

[Arkless Electronics]

That's good Jez. Glad to hear things are improving.

Thanks Geoff I'm hoping it's not just a seasonal blip or some such but yep I'm doing ok at the moment.

[Marco]

User reviews are hopeless and not to be relied on at all. The 'reviews' are the opinions of people who could just be pleased with a new purchase because it seems better than the last piece of junk they bought. Their terms of reference could be anything or nothing.

Indeed - and that's the whole point!

Unlike, for example, here, when someone you've met and heard their system (often on numerous occasions), have conversed with on the forum for many months or years, and so have a good understanding of their sonic priorities, and whether they align with yours or not.

I'm far more likely to listen to them, and perhaps buy something on the strength of their advice, than I would with some 'unknown entity' elsewhere.

Marco.

[Marco]

Thanks Geoff I'm hoping it's not just a seasonal blip or some such but yep I'm doing ok at the moment.

Nice one, mate. Long may it continue!

Marco.

[Dynamics]

User reviews are hopeless and not to be relied on at all. The 'reviews' are the opinions of people who could just be pleased with a new purchase because it seems better than the last piece of junk they bought. Their terms of reference could be anything or nothing.

I agree you can't rely on them fully unto themselves as single reviews, but you have to understand that people who have bought the product have tried it and tried others, thought is it worth it for the price etc. You can rely on it if lots buy, as it's very persuasive of quality, just as you'd buy a focus if lots buy and not a Trabant. Or if people are eating the fish in a restaurant if it's just been caught etc. It's not junk either, as pmc or naim is not a junk brand for instance.

I'd buy if magazines rate it - a number of magazines, if dealers sell a lot, if company websites have customers rating it, and then I go to the shop and I make my own mind up if this is true or not. If it is I buy, if I don't then it isn't in sink with others views. But I certainly wouldn't go to buy 'obscure or relatively unknown electronics' amp because all this information would be less. It's just common sense and within the sphere of audiophile offerings I think most people buy this way. But I somewhat agree you do get some people who go for any old crap.

[walpurgis]

You can rely on it if lots buy, as it's very persuasive of quality

Lots buy Bose and swear it's the best. I don't think I'd be persuaded by that.

[Dynamics]

With respect, Simon, that smacks of a sheep-like mentality (simply follow the herd, as they must know best), whilst applying zero lateral thinking, or indeed much thinking at all of your own, and it's the complete OPPOSITE of the approach we champion here on AoS.

Who knows, the Lithuanian car in question might be great (just like Skoda are now, compared with what they were once like)? You simply don't know until you try (drive) the car in question for yourself, and exactly as it is with hi-fi, that's the *only* way you'll ever be sure that it's right for YOU, using your judgement criteria, not someone else's.

Also, if all you want to know about is the likes of Linn, Naim or PMC, or whatever else dealers are 'shifting lots of', then I suspect you've joined the wrong forum. I'll get to your other post later, as right now I'm rather busy.

Marco.

No I know best, as I make the purchase decision, because I'd go and listen to the rated ones i mention and those that aren't as well, in the sphere of shop offerings, but what I can't do is drive to every unknown manufacturer or dealer with these unknowns because they will be few and far between and some way away and their distribution won't be so good. If they all did free trials or a nominal fee in postage costs, I'm right with them, but sadly I don't see many doing this. I go to audio t instead and trace out dealers of products being raved about by a decent number of people.

Absolutely you are right the Lithuanian car may be better. But I'm not going to drive to Scotland or milies elsewhere to find the one dealer who sells them, and then go to another dealer who sells an obscure make miles away too. I'd check out my local garages, then I might go and pick up from them or a dealer nationwide.

I'm happy to chat to people on this forum, but I do find this kind of obscurism shall I call it, rather odd. As by your own assertion its a person judgement, it's not about what is good, but different to the norm, so you cast out pmc etc because they sell a lot. That seems counter to your own position and shouldn't hi fi be non exclusive, that you say it's down to individual judgement. If the obscure is good buy it, if the common stuff is, buy it too. I'm just explaining the reality of what's possible with these products.

[Dynamics]

Lots buy Bose and swear it's the best. I don't think I'd be persuaded by that.

I'd agree but I'm not talking about Bose which are crap relatively speaking to audiophile brands - I'm talking about brands like pmc, harbeth, atc, spendor, naim, musical fidelity, etc. All very decent. I don't know what a lot of the brands in signatures are. But I could also say Bose are good for what they do, but most people on this forum have spent considerably more than a £1k Bose soundplayer on their hi fi.

[Marco]

As by your own assertion its a person judgement, it's not about what is good, but different to the norm, so you cast out pmc etc because they sell a lot.

I'm not 'casting out' anything. I happen to rate some of PMCs speakers. However, if a talented DIY-er, or small-time specialist speaker manufacturer, produced a design that to my ears was better (and worked better with my equipment), than the PMCs in question, then that's what I'd buy, and I'd care not a jot about who had the 'best established reputation', or how 'well reviewed' their equipment was.

As for your comments about "obscurism", if you've read Our Ethos and followed the discussions here from regulars, you'll know that on AoS we champion the 'little guy', and also the weird and the obscure, simply because that's often where one finds truly great products. It's got to be *really* good though, not just simply obscure for the sake of it!

Also, some of us (me included), providing it sounds superb and ticks all the right boxes, really enjoy owning bespoke-made equipment, designed and/or modified for us, thus making it unique, than something commercially produced in its 100s or 1000s. Almost every part of my system is like that, and that provides me with almost as much satisfaction than the fact that to my ears, it bests everything else I've heard so far, at a price I'm willing to spend.

In fact, I actively go out of my way to BE DIFFERENT from the majority of people, as I hate having the same stuff as everyone else!!

Anyway, I'm dodging between jobs at the moment, so will tackle some of your other points later.

Marco.