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Thread: Which country has the best hi fi industry in the world

  1. #71
    Join Date: Feb 2017

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    I'm Simon.

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    I respect your view but what I'm asking you to acknowledge which is a problem is this. if a small time specialist produced a better design, it would have to be against what you have, not the current competition, as there would be no reference to current mass market competition. You can't go out and know what the small time players are doing and which is better simply as comparisons cannot be made so easily, as hardly anybody will be buying and hardly anyone reviewing or writing about it. Also such products about with harder distribution. You could go and trial an unknown power supply for £500 and seek it out, and see what it's like relative to your system and current supply, but look at what the reviewers and customers are buying of a power supply at £500 of mass market offerings, I can guarantee it will be better as more people have thought more of it. If the smaller player was good, it would be elevated into the main players products. It's price is worth it. If nobody is willing to entertain this, we aren't really talking about what people think are good, or acknowledging the seeking out of products which are good or not.

  2. #72
    Join Date: May 2009

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    I'm joe.

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    There's so many imponderables in this question, the most obvious being, who gets to define 'best', and on which criteria? I'm not sure it matters anyway. Looking at my main system, there's a British-made turntable and tonearm, a Dutch-made cartridge, a British-made CD transport, a French-made integrated amp/Dac, Japanese-made headphone system, and British-made speakers, plus a fine layer of British-made dust.

  3. #73
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    In fact, I actively go out of my way to BE DIFFERENT from the majority of people, as I hate having the same stuff as everyone else!!

    Marco.
    I have that tendency too Marco. I'm bloody certain nobody else has the same equipment line up I do. Even my Tannoys are rare ones!
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  4. #74
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I have that tendency too Marco. I'm bloody certain nobody else has the same equipment line up I do. Even my Tannoys are rare ones!
    even fewer will have mine Coz Its crap sorry unusual gear
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  5. #75
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I have that tendency too Marco. I'm bloody certain nobody else has the same equipment line up I do. Even my Tannoys are rare ones!
    I just want sound, and best experience and couldn't give a damm if someone has the same shirt, car, or hi fi. If I was to play god and have reviewed every peace of hi fi as a number of other 100 'gods ' had and we rated the products as which were best, I'm sure the products in your kit wouldn't be the very best for your budget in the world, as the same with my system and everyone else's. This is because you can't experience and review all kit yourself. So what have you got to go off - what others have said, what is selling, what is independent reviewed, what sounds good to you. Then weigh it up and decide to buy. This is the very best you can do. I don't understand why someone would limit options of what's good by checking out less well known products, then check them against their own kit but not against what a lot of other stuff people are buying.

  6. #76
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    if a small time specialist produced a better design, it would have to be against what you have, not the current competition, as there would be no reference to current mass market competition.
    Of course, and I haven't claimed differently!

    It's only afterwards, once having bought the gear from a "small-time specialist", when taking it to shows and bake-offs, and TESTING it in the context of other systems, and with all sorts of different equipment, that I'm then in a position to judge it against some of the current competition I've compared it with.

    This is what you seem to be refusing to do, and would instead rather pay attention to marketing and website reviews, from folk you don't know, or indeed how good their ears actually are. That for me, is more likely a recipe for failure, or rather you potentially missing out on hearing all sorts of wonderful gear, than my approach, simply because you're not willing to make the effort to seek out anything that's a bit different from the norm, and ultimately are influenced by un-trusted ears.

    When I lived in Glasgow, I traveled to Bath and back in the same day, to buy my first pair of Spendors (from The Right Note). Since moving down to North Wales, I've traveled to Penzance and back in the same day, to buy the Tannoys I now use - and I've embarked upon umpteen journeys like that, all over the UK, either to buy something I want, or hear something I'm interested in.

    If I want something badly enough, then distance (within the UK) is NO object!

    Also, I've taken quite a few 'blind punts' on stuff, often where I've had no other option (such as with cartridges), but also with my modified Technics SL-1210, which I initially bought from a company in the US (KAB), and had to fork out £1500 upfront, to buy a stock MK5G from the chap in question and for him to apply all his mods to it - then when it was ready and had been shipped to me, cough up the tax and import duty on top, for something, to all intents and purposes I had no idea how it would sound....!

    Fortunately, the gamble paid off handsomely, as has indeed been the case with the vast majority of 'educated punts', but that's only because I do my homework first on the product concerned, and eliminate as far as possible the likelihood for disappointment - and virtually my whole system has been assembled that way, with little help needed from dealers or magazine reviews.

    Each to his or her own, of course, but it's that sort of level of commitment and endeavour, coupled with lateral thinking and the desire to be different, which we promote and value on AoS, not simply walking into your local dealer and buying the latest 'must have' new toy. However, whether you decide to go that route or not is up to you.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

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  7. #77
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Of course, and I haven't claimed differently!

    It's only afterwards, once having bought the gear from "a small-time specialist", when taking it to shows and bake-offs, and TESTING it in the context of other systems, and with all sorts of different equipment, that I'm then in a position to judge it against some of the current competition I've compared it with.

    This is what you seem to be refusing to do, and would instead rather pay attention to marketing and website reviews, from folk you don't know, or indeed how good their ears actually are. That for me, is more than likely a recipe for failure, or rather for you potentially missing out on hearing all sorts of wonderful gear, simply because you're not willing to make the effort to seek out anything that's a bit different from the norm.

    When I lived in Glasgow, I traveled to Bath and back in the same day, to buy my first pair of Spendors (from The Right Note). Since moving down to North Wales, I've traveled to Penzance and back in the same day, to buy the Tannoys I now use - and I've embarked upon umpteen journeys like that, all over the UK, either to buy something I want, or hear something I'm interested in.

    If I want something badly enough, then distance (within the UK) is NO object!

    Also, I've taken quite a few 'blind punts' on stuff, often where I've had no other option (such as with cartridges), but also with my modified Technics SL-1210, which I initially bought blind from a company in the US, and had to fork out £1500 upfront, to buy a stock MK5G from the chap in question and for him to apply all his mods to it - then when it was ready, cough up the tax and import duty on top, for something, to all intents and purposes I had no idea how it would sound....!

    Fortunately, the gamble paid off handsomely, as has indeed been the case with the vast majority of 'educated punts', but that's only because I do my homework first on the product concerned, and eliminate as far as possible the likelihood for disappointment - and virtually my whole system has been assembled that way, with little help needed from dealers or magazine reviews.

    Each to his or her own, of course, but it's that sort of level of commitment and endevour, coupled with lateral thinking and the desire to be different, which we promote and value on AoS, but whether you decide to go that route or not is up to you.

    Marco.
    But what if you've bought a small time player power supply that's rubbish compared to another more well known brand. I don't think people normally buy before you are satisfied otherwise people wouldn't drive all that way. Or a power conditioner of a unknown compared to a conditioner of a known.

    So I heard the isol-8 devices and isotek Aquarius and they are very good around a grand. I'd love there to be a cheaper device alternate but discussions I have with people on here, nobody knows as they don't tend to buy these isotek devices. It need not be a expensive one, but how would I find out if a isotek Polaris is as good as a unknown make for the same or similar thing, if nobody on here knows about the isotek or has done a comparison to a cheaper one and can tell me that. It's a total head-Uck. You are right I may be on the wrong site, but I do like you guys.

    I think it's more a recipe for failure if you pick a product used by very few with no proper comparisons. You can't expect me to believe you wouldn't sell the stuff back if the branded stuff is better, assuming ones set up includes hardly any branded stuff.

    I've done a comparison and to ask if a smaller player conditioner works better, but nobody can tell me that. It seems to me, people experience in the smaller player market due to value price and see what they can do with their systems from there. That's fine. I don't mind spending if it really is good and great sound. Ill get that from more experience of buyers and people who trial different units. I'm slightly convinced on the power inspired regenerator, so it's not like I cast out smaller players all the time.

  8. #78
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

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    This thread has gotten off topic, but that's what conversations do I suppose. Both Simon and Marco have their points. If one is exposed to some local talent that can make some top notch gear, for competitive prices, then why not indulge? But out here in the real world, how many people have ever even heard of this local talent? Say I'm shopping for a preamp, (and I am), there are literally thousands out there! How do I hope to narrow down the list to a reasonable length that I may actually go and hear some of them to make a decision? I must rely on reviews, of all kinds, to help me narrow it down. I cannot go hear in person 1,000 preamps. And perhaps there is a local talent that can make a preamp to "piss on" all the rest? What are my hopes of auditioning one? I can't pop around to the next bake off. (Coincidentally around here a "bake off" is when everyone gets stoned) I can go to several local salons and hear what they have to offer, which will be name brand gear. There is a local Richmond VA high fi club, Audiophile group, or whatever they call themselves. But I've investigated and if you aren't a doctor or lawyer, you will not fit in. And they do not Champlain any local DIY gear I can be sure of that.

    So it is great if you can be part of this forum and live local to most of you and attend the bake offs and use that exposure to help decide on your next piece of gear. But to 99.99999% of the world, that is just not an option. If I did invest in a piece of equipment made by one of the members of this forum, I would be taking your personal reviews of that gear to heart, and buying sight unseen, so how is that different?

    A happy medium would be to say that an audio enthusiast should use all avenues open to him to get out and hear what is available to him, both big and small, and not just buy what's on the latest cover of Stereophile. But the written word is a necessary way to narrow the field for most of us. I find that good personal reviews are limited in usefulness, but bad reviews are more telling. If I read that 3/4 of all reviews on a product are bad, that right there is a sign! They may even sound great! But if it breaks down 75% of the time, or the company's service is gawd awful, I don't care how great it sounds, it's not for me. And that is information you may not pick up on at a local bake off.

    Back to the original thread, it is true that my entire system is American made at this point. And I didn't do it on purpose, it just wound up that way. Perhaps because most of the gear I am exposed to is made here locally? I recall back in the younger days of hi fi, British gear was well respected! Considered the best! Old Quad amps and ESL's, those were the choice of the golden eared! Quick Silvers, many others, my memory fails me. The American market was younger, just a few good designers starting out, but the British had been there, more mature offerings. Of course over the years that has changed. We still see British gear for sale here, but it doesn't carry the weight it once did. But I suppose if one lives in England, it's not hard to outfit your living room with all British gear? Just as I have filled mine with American gear, because it was most available, what I was most likely to hear when comparing. If one lived in Japan, I'm sure it would be very easy to have a top notch system made completely in Japan. Even China has a few true hi end makers coming about. We just haven't heard about them as much, but if you lived in china I'm sure you could assemble a decent system out of local pieces. Is there a local sound? Now this I may be leaning towards, I know there is a real difference between the Japanese offerings and American offerings, both good mind you, but perhaps a little bit different philosophy of design.


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  9. #79
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    But what if you've bought a small time player power supply that's rubbish compared to another more well known brand.
    Then (if I discovered that fact in due course) I'd simply sell the former and buy the latter, but I can assure you, if the small time player in question is suitably talented, it's usually the other way round!!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #80
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,173
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    I respect your view but what I'm asking you to acknowledge which is a problem is this. if a small time specialist produced a better design, it would have to be against what you have, not the current competition, as there would be no reference to current mass market competition. You can't go out and know what the small time players are doing and which is better simply as comparisons cannot be made so easily, as hardly anybody will be buying and hardly anyone reviewing or writing about it. Also such products about with harder distribution. You could go and trial an unknown power supply for £500 and seek it out, and see what it's like relative to your system and current supply, but look at what the reviewers and customers are buying of a power supply at £500 of mass market offerings, I can guarantee it will be better as more people have thought more of it. If the smaller player was good, it would be elevated into the main players products. It's price is worth it. If nobody is willing to entertain this, we aren't really talking about what people think are good, or acknowledging the seeking out of products which are good or not.
    Definitely going on ignore list... Unbelievable.
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
    ReVox PR99, Studer B62, Ferrograph Series 7, Tandberg TCD440, Hitachi FT-5500MkI, also FT-5500MkII
    Digital: Yamaha CDR-HD1500 (Digital Swiss army knife-CD recorder, player, hard drive, DAC and ADC in one), PC files via 24/96 sound card and SPDIF, modded Philips CD850, modded Philips CD104, modded DPA Little Bit DAC. Sennheiser HD580 cans with Arkless Headphone amp.
    Cables- free interconnects that come with CD players, mains leads from B&Q, dead kettles etc, extension leads from Tesco

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