Which country has the best hi fi industry in the world

[Macca]

Ben? As in Ben Dover?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Pot_Men

[walpurgis]

Ben? As in Ben Dover?

Ben Nevis. Big and pointy!

[Dynamics]

Yes Simon, I think we need to try and wean you off being so focused on the mainstream/mass-market brands and approach to audio, and try and get you to think a little more laterally!

That is, as long as it doesn't detract from you enjoying what you currently have (and if it's mainstream stuff, that's fine), as at the end of the day it's all about enjoying the music. However, there are very distinct and unique advantages, in terms of achieving the highest 'SPPV', which going down the specialist/boutique/bespoke route provides that no mainstream commercial equipment can match, without spending some serious mullah....

It's a bit like comparing a hot-rodded, race-tuned, professionally modified car, against the same model, only in its stock form, straight from the dealer. The former, if done right, always 'wastes' the latter, which if you've ever watched the likes of Top Gear, you'll be fully aware of!

And the same applies with hi-fi...... The key is in buying from folk who *really* know what they're doing, and have a serious passion for it, rather than simply just churning out 'boxes' to create a product range.

Marco.

Id be in the camp the stock car is probably better because it's designed according to what the manufacturer intended. So you can put exhausts and skirts on a Ford Fiesta and is it better than the stock car. Probably not. Change the engine and redesign its balance with the benefit of considerable resource, then yes. But my attitude is we don't see this in hi fi. The reason why the mass market think the offerings in the mass market audiophile sector is good, is very much because of experience and many people buying. I don't buy a car from Poland, but a car from the Germans or Americans with a known pedigree and considerable customer experience. My attitude is if im to rely on a group to tell me that a very much smaller proponent of the market is right, then how can I know they are right. But if say pmc are making some of the best speakers in the uk at the moment and many people buying new speakers think so, I'm right with them, rather than a brand or model which came out years ago and is past it's best or one more obscure. Also I agree it's what you get out, but how can I demo a very unknown amp or brand or maybe an obsolete model when unavailable or only a few dealers has the same. It puts an element of 'I know more about hi fi because I have an obscure brand' about it, rather than what many people think are good. People swear by la phroig whiskey but I think it tastes like tcp, and I'd rather have a traditional tasting but good pedigree maccallan, or even a bushmills.

[walpurgis]

Hmm. If I was in the market for new British brand speakers, I'd be looking at Harbeth, Spendor, Quad (electrostatics only) and Tannoy etc.

[Dynamics]

I live about half a mile away from harbeth and listened to lots at Bristol and my impression is they are great for classical, very natural but don't have the hard hitting bass and treble balanced nature of pmc e.g. Twenty5. Spendor are very good indeed and a match for pmc except say a6r not being as good as pmc twenty5 series eg 23. Twenty5 more treble and mid range etc. I don't know about quad really but I wasn't impressed with some of their speakers but tannoy are very good and I've been a tannoy owner, but they don't currently have speakers as good in the pmc class and price of twenty5 series ATM,because there isn't tannoy speakers in the pmc's price bracket at present I don't think.

[Marco]

Id be in the camp the stock car is probably better because it's designed according to what the manufacturer intended.

Yes, and along with all the financial limitations a commercial manufacturer has, which ultimately means less spent 'under the hood', where it matters most...

When I buy hi-fi equipment, I don't want a huge chunk of what I've paid spent on marketing, advertising and all the other overheads of a large 'high street' business. I want the bulk of it to go on PERFORMANCE!

And it's EXACTLY the same with cars, *providing* the job has been done RIGHT, and carried out with a proper understanding and appreciation of what one is working with, and what one can realistically achieve. In that respect, a suitably qualified bespoke modifier isn't hobbled with the same financial restrictions, and so (providing either he or she, or their customer) has sufficient budget, the sky's virtually the limit!

In that respect, I'd put my Brabus-modified and professionally race-tuned Mercedes C350CDI up against the current stock model any day - and expect it to royally DESTROY it!!

...as indeed I would much of the hi-fi gear I use, which has been 'race-tuned' in a similar way, when pit against most commercial equipment, at virtually any price.

You're still new here, and getting to know folks, but if you start to attend some of the AoS meets/bake-offs, or host some of your own, and get to hear what the best of the kit I'm referring to sounds like, and experience it outperforming some commercial stuff you had previously considered was the dog's bollocks, trust me it will open your eyes (and ears), and you'll no longer need to rely on magazines or dealers to tell you what's worth buying....

But you need to get yourself out and about and listen to different stuff, preferably by taking a known reference with you and judging, with your own ears, how it performs in comparison, as that's the only way you learn. It can be a hard one to take though, when your, say, £3k 'commercial wonder box' is sonically humiliated by a £300 DIY design!!

I've been there, and it's a total head-fuck.... *But* it acts as a worthwhile learning curve and teaches you some valuable lessons, as to just what can be achieved with hi-fi, and save you a fortune in the process. I can assure you that I don't miss the days of spending £30k on a new Naim system, especially when my current one (as detailed in my signature) pisses all over it - at a fraction of the cost!!

Only you, however, can decide if that type of journey [and reality check] is for you.....

Marco.

[Dynamics]

Well I suppose you need to have marketing to know about it. If you don't you can't know. And if budgets aren't spent on marketing to enthuse people, how can anyone buy that brand. We are talking about products in a very niche market in audiophile terms. If I know a select group of people like one non mass market but audiophile brand in say Canada, not known to other people into a similar non mass market audiophile brand elsewhere in the uk, but not known to those people in Canada, who knows what's better. You can't compare. But spend effort on getting the product out to Canadians, British etc, and marketing, and lots think it's great. That's a different matter.

And I doubt one can say a system pisses over a naim system of same value, for reasons naim change and develop more than our systems, and more importantly who is ever doing proper independent comparisons to know. Of course my hi fi is better than anyone else at same price. I would say that - tongue in cheek. But is my hi fi better than one in Canada of that market, not distributed to uk, or known as much in uk and distributed as much for me to know. Who knows and frankly who cares. I can't go out and audition everything. I get enjoyment from mine, what do I matter if mine pisses on anyone else's or not.

[Marco]

Well I suppose you need to have marketing to know about it. If you don't you can't know.

Not necessarily. That's what forums are for these days!

Bear in mind, I'm talking about facilitating the interests of enthusiasts, such as you and me, not the general public. WE get to know about the good stuff because people we've met on AoS, or on other forums, and perhaps have since become friends with, and who's ears we trust, report on it - that is if we don't already know about it ourselves, as a result of visiting someone or attending a bake-off.

And I doubt one can say a system pisses over a naim system of same value, for reasons naim change and develop more than our systems...

Yes you can, because in this instance I'm talking about the £30k Naim system I used to own (CDS2/XPS2/NAC52/Supercap/135s), all bought brand new. I used that with a pair of Spendor SP100s, which was my system for five years before I got into what I'm into now, and learned some very harsh and valuable lessons on how best to invest my money on hi-fi equipment.

Therefore, I'm 100% qualified to make that comparison. I'm not talking about the stuff Naim produce now, although I have my views on that from what I've recently heard at shows. Honestly, if you knew my history with Naim equipment (which I've been using on and off since the 80s), you'd know that few have been more of a fanboy than me!

I still respect the company and consider Paul Stephenson (now retired) as a friend, and that will never change, but reality is reality.

...and more importantly who is ever doing proper independent comparisons to know. Of course my hi fi is better than anyone else at same price. I would say that - tongue in cheek. But is my hi fi better than one in Canada of that market, not distributed to uk, or known as much in uk and distributed as much for me to know. Who knows and frankly who cares. I can't go out and audition everything.

YOU will be, if you get yourself around and listen to other people's kit, especially those who own either DIY or bespoke produced equipment from small, specialist manufacturers.. Use YOUR EARS, rather than relying on those of anyone else, unless you're the unsociable type who just likes to read magazines and keep himself to himself

I get enjoyment from mine, what do I matter if mine pisses on anyone else's or not.

That's good, and what it's all about, but the only way to learn and understand what else there is out there, with a view to fundamentally improving upon what you currently have (should you wish to do so), and subsequently obtain the 'biggest bang for your buck', is to go out and hear it - and not just inside the shops of high street dealers. *That's* what it's about, not conducting a competition.

Marco.

[Joe]

We really should consider forming a double-act.

Indeed.

Which reminds me of the story of when '60s comedy double-act Mike and Bernie Winters were performing at the Glasgow Empire, whose audience was always tough on the performers, especially if they were English. Mike Winters, the straight-man, bounded on stage and started doing his spiel, to stony silence. Then Bernie came on stage. 'My God!' called out an audience member 'there's two of the bastards!'

[Macca]

Indeed.

Which reminds me of the story of when '60s comedy double-act Mike and Bernie Winters were performing at the Glasgow Empire, whose audience was always tough on the performers, especially if they were English. Mike Winters, the straight-man, bounded on stage and started doing his spiel, to stony silence. Then Bernie came on stage. 'My God!' called out an audience member 'there's two of the bastards!'