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Thread: Do Cables Make A Difference?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    The answer is they surely do make a difference. But it depends on lots of things. I do think if the system isn't up to very good sound quality standards, it's highly dubious if cables can make big differences. I've heard only nuanced differences in speakers around 1000 and amplification the same, when I've owned such a system, but when my speakers and amps got a lot better, the cables can make profound differences. I suppose whenever a system can be more sensitive to changes you will notice more. It's maybe a bit like using very good fuel on a Ferrari will show up more than a lesser performing car. Shielding is pretty big in comparative tests too.

    It's not always expensive is better , but it can follow and cables in the chord and tellurium ranges for example have great reputations. I've found going up through the chord range the sound does get better, but law of diminishing returns comes in.

    Before I changed my speakers I used cheap talk cable with my old pmc twenty 23s and the talks just sapped all dynamics from the sound compared to my chord epic reference cables. But when I changed speakers to pmc twenty5 23 the talks are not that bad

  2. #12
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

    Posts: 914
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    The answer is they surely do make a difference. But it depends on lots of things. I do think if the system isn't up to very good sound quality standards, it's highly dubious if cables can make big differences. I've heard only nuanced differences in speakers around 1000 and amplification the same, when I've owned such a system, but when my speakers and amps got a lot better, the cables can make profound differences. I suppose whenever a system can be more sensitive to changes you will notice more. It's maybe a bit like using very good fuel on a Ferrari will show up more than a lesser performing car. Shielding is pretty big in comparative tests too.

    It's not always expensive is better , but it can follow and cables in the chord and tellurium ranges for example have great reputations. I've found going up through the chord range the sound does get better, but law of diminishing returns comes in.

    Before I changed my speakers I used cheap talk cable with my old pmc twenty 23s and the talks just sapped all dynamics from the sound compared to my chord epic reference cables. But when I changed speakers to pmc twenty5 23 the talks are not that bad
    Some amp manufacturer s recommend you use only their speaker cable otherwise you'll void warranty,why? I honestly don't know why?
    cambridge audio azur 651w power amp, novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, wharfedale diamond 10.1[suprisingly good]
    , van damme blue series interconnects, van damme studio blue 4mm speaker cable, klotz mc 5000 ,klotz silver hybrid, thanks Brian, fisual hollywood optical cable,, pioneer bdp170, akg k 550

  3. #13
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 826
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    Some amp manufacturer s recommend you use only their speaker cable otherwise you'll void warranty,why? I honestly don't know why?
    The naim NAP250 is one such amp, it is because what is called a Zobel network that helps the amplifier
    drive a speaker lead ( not the speaker itself ) in the case of naim leads, the characteristics of a zobel
    were embodied into the speaker lead, rather than as is normally done within the amplifier.

    In the power amp speaker relationship, up to three zobels can be used, one at the power amp to
    assist driving the leads, another at the speaker binding posts, and another is sometimes seen
    across the voice coil. Audiophiles are yet to catch up with the zobel at the speaker binding posts
    which was advocated by Cyril Bateman,

  4. #14
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

    Posts: 914
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    The naim NAP250 is one such amp, it is because what is called a Zobel network that helps the amplifier
    drive a speaker lead ( not the speaker itself ) in the case of naim leads, the characteristics of a zobel
    were embodied into the speaker lead, rather than as is normally done within the amplifier.

    In the power amp speaker relationship, up to three zobels can be used, one at the power amp to
    assist driving the leads, another at the speaker binding posts, and another is sometimes seen
    across the voice coil. Audiophiles are yet to catch up with the zobel at the speaker binding posts
    which was advocated by Cyril Bateman,
    Do nva recommend the use of their own otherwise invalidateing warranty? So z if I'm wrong? Zobel? Eh oh ek I'm GNA get a bose!!
    Last edited by Pieoftheday; 24-05-2017 at 07:46.
    cambridge audio azur 651w power amp, novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, wharfedale diamond 10.1[suprisingly good]
    , van damme blue series interconnects, van damme studio blue 4mm speaker cable, klotz mc 5000 ,klotz silver hybrid, thanks Brian, fisual hollywood optical cable,, pioneer bdp170, akg k 550

  5. #15
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 826
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    Do nva recommend the use of their own otherwise invalidateing warranty? So z if I'm wrong
    Hi James
    You would need to check with NVA, but is unusual to build the characteristics of a zobel network into the lead itself
    and at the same time leave out the zobel to drive the speaker lead in the amp. AFAIK Naim were the only manufacturer to do this.

    A zobel for the amp to drive speaker leads is typically a network of a 10 ohm resistor in series to ground with a
    100nf capacitor, but variations occur like in a quad 306 that has 10R and 47 nano-farad.

    You can see these parts placed close to the output of the amplifier. The amplifier zobel to drive speaker leads
    has received much study, and work done by Douglas Self looks at it closely.

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

    Posts: 914
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Hi James
    You would need to check with NVA, but is unusual to build the characteristics of a zobel network into the lead itself
    and at the same time leave out the zobel to drive the speaker lead in the amp. AFAIK Naim were the only manufacturer to do this.

    A zobel for the amp to drive speaker leads is typically a network of a 10 ohm resistor in series to ground with a
    100nf capacitor, but variations occur like in a quad 306 that has 10R and 47 nano-farad.

    You can see these parts placed close to the output of the amplifier. The amplifier zobel to drive speaker leads
    has received much study, and work done by Douglas Self looks at it closely.
    Well that's easy for you to say thanks for your reply Chris,all a bit complicated for me though
    cambridge audio azur 651w power amp, novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, wharfedale diamond 10.1[suprisingly good]
    , van damme blue series interconnects, van damme studio blue 4mm speaker cable, klotz mc 5000 ,klotz silver hybrid, thanks Brian, fisual hollywood optical cable,, pioneer bdp170, akg k 550

  7. #17
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: vancouver

    Posts: 642
    I'm danilo.

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    Not ...all amps Require Or benefit from Zobels
    Chip amps do though.
    My audio bits: Thorens / diy phono, CD/dvd player(s), diy pre, F6, Tannoy Golds in my boxes / my xovers, and of course all strung together with basic diy Wires
    Lots of Cd's, yet more audio files, a couple of hundred semi worn Lps.

  8. #18
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 1,740
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    The answer is they surely do make a difference. But it depends on lots of things. I do think if the system isn't up to very good sound quality standards, it's highly dubious if cables can make big differences. I've heard only nuanced differences in speakers around 1000 and amplification the same, when I've owned such a system, but when my speakers and amps got a lot better, the cables can make profound differences. I suppose whenever a system can be more sensitive to changes you will notice more. It's maybe a bit like using very good fuel on a Ferrari will show up more than a lesser performing car. Shielding is pretty big in comparative tests too.

    It's not always expensive is better , but it can follow and cables in the chord and tellurium ranges for example have great reputations. I've found going up through the chord range the sound does get better, but law of diminishing returns comes in.

    Before I changed my speakers I used cheap talk cable with my old pmc twenty 23s and the talks just sapped all dynamics from the sound compared to my chord epic reference cables. But when I changed speakers to pmc twenty5 23 the talks are not that bad
    I think the classic counter-argument (against cables being capable of making an improvement) is with the integrated amp vs separates. If you take a good quality integrated amp, and then you separate the preamp from the power amp by placing each component into a separate box, you now need to connect them by using cables. So how can now those cables make the sound better than it was before the preamp and the amp got separated?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 26,989
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    I think the classic counter-argument (against cables being capable of making an improvement) is with the integrated amp vs separates. If you take a good quality integrated amp, and then you separate the preamp from the power amp by placing each component into a separate box, you now need to connect them by using cables. So how can now those cables make the sound better than it was before the preamp and the amp got separated?
    I don't think there's any argument that all cables are detrimental to sound, but they are unavoidable links in the chain in most systems, so it's worth experimenting to find the cables that have the least bad effect in whichever application. Which is what I do. Audible effects from cable changes are easily discerned, although some do 'sound' similar.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  10. #20
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 1,740
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I don't think there's any argument that all cables are detrimental to sound, but they are unavoidable links in the chain in most systems, so it's worth experimenting to find the cables that have the least bad effect in whichever application. Which is what I do. Audible effects from cable changes are easily discerned, although some do 'sound' similar.
    So in this example, splitting the integrated amp into preamp and the power amp will always sound worse than it sounded when being integrated under the same 'roof'?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

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