Do Cables Make A Difference?

[farflungstar]

LOL I am also hearing cable differences at the moment, in this case speaker cable.

Not even different brands, just two different lengths of NVA cable. The thicker one gives a bassier sound, puts the mid and top further back, the thinner one brings the mid and top forward compared to the bass, It is a significant difference in presentation, although not in quality (the two should never be confused). I'd expect even a civilian to notice the difference between the two pretty much instantly.

These people like Jez who say there is no technical reason so you are imagining it - if they came round here and I demonstrated the difference I know that they would not sit there and say 'I don't hear it.' because they just couldn't, not with a straight face. I know the first thing they would do is exam the system, examine the cables and then tell me the technical reason. Well why could you just not do that in the first place instead of telling me I was dreaming!

I think jez in another post said that a cables properties such as gauge, capacitance, inductance etc would affect sound. His argument, I think, was that exotic materials etc in themselves would not affect sound.

I think this was my first disagreement with jez lol.

[YNWaN]

Hi James
You would need to check with NVA, but is unusual to build the characteristics of a zobel network into the lead itself
and at the same time leave out the zobel to drive the speaker lead in the amp. AFAIK Naim were the only manufacturer to do this.

Naim are certainly not the only manufactures to eschew the use of a Zobel network on the output of their amps - just off the top of my head there is NVA and Spectral. However, there is no network in the cable itself (at least not with Naim and NVA, you don't need a Zobel network as long as you aren't using high capacitance cables (and the cable presents sufficient inductance). Few speaker cables are high capacitance but there are exceptions (Goertz for example).

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Regarding the audible difference between thick and thin speaker cables - I can't speak for Jez but I suspect his line is not that cables cannot make a difference but that as long as they are sufficiently specified they should not make a difference - the point being that the thin speaker cable is insufficiently specified.

[Arkless Electronics]

Naim are certainly not the only manufactures to eschew the use of a Zobel network on the output of their amps - just off the top of my head there is NVA and Spectral. However, there is no network in the cable itself (at least not with Naim and NVA, you don't need a Zobel network as long as you aren't using high capacitance cables (and the cable presents sufficient inductance). Few speaker cables are high capacitance but there are exceptions (Goertz for example).

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Regarding the audible difference between thick and thin speaker cables - I can't speak for Jez but I suspect his line is not that cables cannot make a difference but that as long as they are sufficiently specified they should not make a difference - the point being that the thin speaker cable is insufficiently specified.

Correct.

[Arkless Electronics]

Naim are certainly not the only manufactures to eschew the use of a Zobel network on the output of their amps - just off the top of my head there is NVA and Spectral. However, there is no network in the cable itself (at least not with Naim and NVA, you don't need a Zobel network as long as you aren't using high capacitance cables (and the cable presents sufficient inductance). Few speaker cables are high capacitance but there are exceptions (Goertz for example).

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Regarding the audible difference between thick and thin speaker cables - I can't speak for Jez but I suspect his line is not that cables cannot make a difference but that as long as they are sufficiently specified they should not make a difference - the point being that the thin speaker cable is insufficiently specified.

Naim do use a Zobel network but don't use the almost de rigour inductor at the output. Don't ask... it's technical enough to kill the thread and I'd have to slag Naim as part of the answer

[Light Dependant Resistor]

Naim are certainly not the only manufactures to eschew the use of a Zobel network on the output of their amps - just off the top of my head there is NVA and Spectral. However, there is no network in the cable itself (at least not with Naim and NVA, you don't need a Zobel network as long as you aren't using high capacitance cables (and the cable presents sufficient inductance). Few speaker cables are high capacitance but there are exceptions (Goertz for example).

------
Regarding the audible difference between thick and thin speaker cables - I can't speak for Jez but I suspect his line is not that cables cannot make a difference but that as long as they are sufficiently specified they should not make a difference - the point being that the thin speaker cable is insufficiently specified.

The zobel in an amplifier is placed for stability, and is required with any load that is even mildly inductive.
You risk VHF instability in the output stage without it.

[YNWaN]

Well, A/ you've effectively done that and B/ I don't know the detail of the Spectral and NVA but the essence of what I wrote is true.

[Macca]

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Regarding the audible difference between thick and thin speaker cables - I can't speak for Jez but I suspect his line is not that cables cannot make a difference but that as long as they are sufficiently specified they should not make a difference - the point being that the thin speaker cable is insufficiently specified.

Right, So the thicker should just be better in every respect. But it isn't. Perfection, in this situation, would be somewhere between the two. So can you be using too thick a gauge as well as too thin?

[YNWaN]

Well.... it is, but whether it shows up discrepancies/inadequacies elsewhere is another matter and not it's fault.

[Macca]

Fair point. It could be that.

[Arkless Electronics]

Well, A/ you've effectively done that and B/ I don't know the detail of the Spectral and NVA but the essence of what I wrote is true.

A/ Yep B/ Many amps these days don't use an inductor at the output... It was fairly de rigour and still is in power amps in general but amongst hi fi amps probably 40% or so these don't use an inductor at the output. Naim use 0.22R resistor, limiting damping factor to 18 for a 4R load, several others also use 0.22R, MF used 4 X 0.47R in parallel in many of their amps...
A Zobel network (AKA boucherot cell) is generally a good idea and is in parallel with the output rather than in line with it. Its reactance drops with frequency but at 20KHz would typically be equivalent to putting an extra 85R across the amp output. It's work is done at much higher frequencies. A feedback amplifier will usually have an inductive output impedance and it helps to counteract this and so aids stability in the amp itself (ie not oscillating!), as touched upon by Chris above.