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Thread: Another major (presumably terrorist) incident. Now in Manchester.

  1. #181
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    But it was about regime change and removing a murdering killing despot. And bloody right too. It was nothing to do with wmd for me, then and now. That was the liberal politics of the uk trying to cook up legitimacy for war with the US. Most people who were a bit gullible then didn't realise it was about regime change. That was what the yanks wanted i.e. Regime change, and without them nobody was going into Iraq.
    But why did they want regime change? Saddam came to power in '79 IIRC, he was always a murdering, killing despot, that's how he got the job! 2003 they finally decide they'd better do something about it.

    Fact is 'he was a sunovabitch but he was 'our sunovabitch' - until he decided to change the terms of the deal. Then he's a murdering despot who can hit the UK with an anthrax loaded missile in 10 minutes.

    Whatever the specific reason it was the oil. It's always the oil. That's the only truly simple thing about the whole subject.
    Martin



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  2. #182
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    surprised they didnt, but that may be the point, or one of them
    Yep no-one thought it might be an idea to fake some WMD. Or they did but decided not to risk it. Bet if Blair had the chance again he be on the blower telling them 'Just do it! Get some paint and a stencil and write 'Anthrax' on some oil drums!'

    Hindsight eh?
    Martin



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  3. #183
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    But it was about regime change and removing a murdering killing despot. And bloody right too. It was nothing to do with wmd for me, then and now. That was the liberal politics of the uk trying to cook up legitimacy for war with the US. Most people who were a bit gullible then didn't realise it was about regime change. That was what the yanks wanted i.e. Regime change, and without them nobody was going into Iraq.
    To be fair Simon wmd was the lie that took us there, lies rarely make things ok
    cambridge audio azur 651w power amp, novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, wharfedale diamond 10.1[suprisingly good]
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  4. #184
    Join Date: Feb 2010

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    Useful discussion here on the topic.

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  5. #185
    Join Date: Feb 2017

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    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    But why did they want regime change? Saddam came to power in '79 IIRC, he was always a murdering, killing despot, that's how he got the job! 2003 they finally decide they'd better do something about it.

    Fact is 'he was a sunovabitch but he was 'our sunovabitch' - until he decided to change the terms of the deal. Then he's a murdering despot who can hit the UK with an anthrax loaded missile in 10 minutes.

    Whatever the specific reason it was the oil. It's always the oil. That's the only truly simple thing about the whole subject.
    The oil issue is a conspiracy theory idea for me. Has no credibility and anyway do the Americans actually own oil installations there and would the billions in defence spent of public money outweigh the cost to set up installations there. Probably no. They went in to get rid of him due to regime change and it was fairly obvious why. Something unprecedented happened at the time - that was 9/11, and with the Iraqi failure to comply with weapons inspectors, the Americans lost patience, and with the continued detriment to Iraq and world peace, I think it was action that was inevitable.

    And if I was a Kurd and all the people he tortured, the children he imprisoned, the torturing and murders, the gassing and lives lost in wars with Iran, I think it was welcome and the Iraqi people wanted it. The fall out was clearly very bad indeed, but I supported intervention because I think the people of the country deserved a chance. More than under hussein.

    But the issue and going back to the thread is, as appears from the news, an IS terrorist going to Syria. And IS came about after the Iraq invasion.

  6. #186
    Join Date: Feb 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieoftheday View Post
    To be fair Simon wmd was the lie that took us there, lies rarely make things ok
    No we were going in no matter what. That decision was taken when bush decided it after 9/11 and Blair was effectively a passenger to stand against terrorism and world peacse and removal of threats like Sadaam, as being an ally of the US. Whatever the rights or wrongs. The wmd question was a rouse and lie that Blair had to present to the electorate to get the uk on board with us involvement, because the liberals of the uk wouldn't support our intervention in a foreign matter and without a un resolution.

    But this question and the one Martin posed to me is of no consequence really to what happened in this bombing. A British man influenced by IS in Syria it seems from the sister and news today. IS didn't even exist at the time of the Iraq invasion.

  7. #187
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    The oil issue is a conspiracy theory idea for me.

    .
    See I don't understand that. Oil is the fundamental that underpins the economy and everything we take for granted in our lives. Iraq has the largest known and easily accessible oil reserve on the planet.

    How can that not be a factor? Who owns the oil and gets the revenue is not so important. The guaranteed and continuous supply of oil is what is important. If that stops, or even stutters, economy falls over.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

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    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  8. #188
    Join Date: Nov 2011

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    No we were going in no matter what. That decision was taken when bush decided it after 9/11 and Blair was effectively a passenger to stand against terrorism and world peacse and removal of threats like Sadaam, as being an ally of the US. Whatever the rights or wrongs. The wmd question was a rouse and lie that Blair had to present to the electorate to get the uk on board with us involvement, because the liberals of the uk wouldn't support our intervention in a foreign matter and without a un resolution.

    But this question and the one Martin posed to me is of no consequence really to what happened in this bombing. A British man influenced by IS in Syria it seems from the sister and news today. IS didn't even exist at the time of the Iraq invasion.
    Never the less wmd was a lie fed to us. Who started this? I couldn't give a shit anymore.killing kids anywhere in the world is the work of cowards
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  9. #189
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: Bristol

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    The regime change thing went well, didn't it? I expect the vast majority of Iraqis would prefer to have Saddam back in charge rather than the chaos left behind after he was toppled.

  10. #190
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    No we were going in no matter what. That decision was taken when bush decided it after 9/11 and Blair was effectively a passenger to stand against terrorism and world peacse and removal of threats like Sadaam, as being an ally of the US. Whatever the rights or wrongs. The wmd question was a rouse and lie that Blair had to present to the electorate to get the uk on board with us involvement, because the liberals of the uk wouldn't support our intervention in a foreign matter and without a un resolution.

    But this question and the one Martin posed to me is of no consequence really to what happened in this bombing. A British man influenced by IS in Syria it seems from the sister and news today. IS didn't even exist at the time of the Iraq invasion.
    With respect of Iraq war,we were lied to.isis have released a press release, they hate us, westerners, because of of our beliefs, no mention of why they kill other Muslims, bunch fookwits
    cambridge audio azur 651w power amp, novafidelity x40 music server/pre/dac, wharfedale diamond 10.1[suprisingly good]
    , van damme blue series interconnects, van damme studio blue 4mm speaker cable, klotz mc 5000 ,klotz silver hybrid, thanks Brian, fisual hollywood optical cable,, pioneer bdp170, akg k 550

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