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Thread: Another major (presumably terrorist) incident. Now in Manchester.

  1. #151
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,643
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    But you forget the reasons for going into these countries intilayy were distinct from Isis which has come about after, but you also ignore that Isis groups have killed more civilians than any western forces. As to the rubbish about oil, I don't believe in conspiracy theorists. This was said around the time of going into Iraq, despite the entire political agenda of many countries around a desire to remove leaders such as sadaam hussein. They went in with the aim of removing him. I don't suppose you know if these countries have benefited from oil anyway.

    And as to other conspiracy theories about governments being involved in Manchester let me shoot that down too. Unless you haven't realised, these terrorist incidents have happened all across Europe, so is there some form of multi government conspiracy. It gets even more far fetched.

    And it is distressing and offensive to write this. What do you suppose the survivors, family members or relatives think, or those that have experienced terrorist incidents (like me on 7/7) think when they read this sort of bad ignorant views, going back to my earlier post around page 7
    Try actually reading my posts before replying....

    As far as Manchester goes well for a start I didn't mention it... But i will now. The completely OTT blanket news reporting on all media, interviews with grieving relatives etc etc is exactly what the terrorists want to see. We are playing into their hands. We should just keep calm and carry on. There was no OTT hand wringing etc when similar atrocities were perpetrated by the IRA.
    That some atrocity such as this was on the cards has been known for a long time. There is no rational reason why it should change anything, but this whole thing is now being used for political capital in the forthcoming general election and being used as an excuse for racism and religious intolerance by dick heads.

  2. #152
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Wakefield west yorkshire

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    I'm James.

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    I have never understood terrorist s that kill innocent people going about their lives? What does it achieve? Do they think ooh I'll kill a load of children it can't fail to help our cause?
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  3. #153
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    Try actually reading my posts before replying....

    As far as Manchester goes well for a start I didn't mention it... But i will now. The completely OTT blanket news reporting on all media, interviews with grieving relatives etc etc is exactly what the terrorists want to see. We are playing into their hands. We should just keep calm and carry on. There was no OTT hand wringing etc when similar atrocities were perpetrated by the IRA.
    That some atrocity such as this was on the cards has been known for a long time. There is no rational reason why it should change anything, but this whole thing is now being used for political capital in the forthcoming general election and being used as an excuse for racism and religious intolerance by dick heads.
    You are going off tangent to the point I made against your point there...

  4. #154
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    I don't discourse with those whose knuckles scrape the floor when they walk.

    I'm out of this conversation. I hate ignorance and stupidity.
    Out of order. Debate like a mature individual or don't debate at all.
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  5. #155
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Don't tell me im speaking rubbish when I have family in Libya experiencing the aftermath of the wests interference in what was a stable, prosperous, tolerant society.

    The only people safe in that country are the snakes dealing oil from the US and the UK.

    Yes ISIS kills Muslims - why? Because its backed by the West.

    Anyone who quotes statistics from a newspaper needs education - not me. I've been places u haven't. I've met people you haven't. And you never will.

    I don't discourse with those whose knuckles scrape the floor when they walk.

    I'm out of this conversation. I hate ignorance and stupidity.
    To me you hold the worst views of people on this matter because it strikes me you are ignorant as to the situation in the Middle East.

    Your points about why people join Isis and being due to western influences is appalling and is condoning terrorism or apologising for it (or any word of similar meaning). I notice you didn't reply to that and it is a horrible attitude which is ignorant of all the facts of what goes on. I'd refer you to my previous reply. it's the thing if I was in government I'd squash out. Ignorance to the situation in the Middle East is what can perpetuate uk people to commit terror crimes against the uks people, and that's a very dangerous thing indeed.

  6. #156
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 3,733

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Think you might need to re-read my posts Joe, my point appears to have eluded you.

    And just because bad things happened in the name of God 500 years ago does not excuse murdering children now.
    Fair enough; I'm in the middle of some tedious DIY and may be guilty of speed-reading at the expense of comprehension, my brains fuddled by noxious fumes.

    I'm (of course) not attempting to excuse child murder, simply pointing out that self-identifying Christians have been murdering other Christians by the million for centuries (and up to the last century, not just 500 years ago), so a simplistic Christianity = peace, Islam = war equation won't work. Both religions advocate peace, leaders of both religions advocate or condone war.

  7. #157
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 1,423
    I'm Adrian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    To me you hold the worst views of people on this matter because it strikes me you are ignorant as to the situation in the Middle East.

    Your points about why people join Isis and being due to western influences is appalling and is condoning terrorism or apologising for it (or any word of similar meaning). I notice you didn't reply to that and it is a horrible attitude which is ignorant of all the facts of what goes on. I'd refer you to my previous reply. it's the thing if I was in government I'd squash out. Ignorance to the situation in the Middle East is what can perpetuate uk people to commit terror crimes against the uks people, and that's a very dangerous thing indeed.
    How dare you say I condone terrorism - I do not. But it's about time this was looked at in an adult way as to why those in the middle East become radicalised and the wests part in it. They don't just wake up and suddenly hate us - they have their reasons - no matter how twisted in our eyes. As to why people in the UK become radicalised I have no idea. That's something I cannot and have not commented on.

    Anyway - Marco -apology given.
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  8. #158
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Guys,

    Before I get the chance to reply to some posts made while I was out, I must *insist* that everyone 'plays the ball, not the man', and that no-one criticises, personally insults or demeans anyone's intelligence or 'lack of knowledge' [at the end of the day with something like this, none of us are experts, so we simply know what our experience has told us or what we have read to date on the matter] - and worse of all, accuse anyone of 'condoning terrorism', simply due to not having properly grasped their argument!

    So, let's rein in the emotion, stop the personal comments ("dickheads", "arses", etc), and STICK SOLELY to the topic of discussion. That applies to everyone. Ta!

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  9. #159
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    I haven't read that blog. I don't support violence of any type. Period. But I want you to think about this...


    Take a moment to think about how you feel for your wife, your kids, your home, yourself.

    Now imagine this....

    You live in a poor area of scrubland in the back of no where.

    You are 12 years old, you don't go to school, and you live with your dad, your mum, and your sister in a little house raising goats. You're happy. Life is simple. The sun rises and sets. Laughter is within your home and your heart.

    Then one day you see planes crossing the sky. You hear your parents whispering together at night. The ruler of your land has been killed by outsiders. They are afraid but they tell you not to worry.

    Then a few weeks later people you recognise as from your own people turn up and you watch as your sister is raped in front of your family and sold into prostitution, as your mum is raped then butchered, and as a bullet is put into the head of your weeping father.

    Who do you blame for this - the people who did it or the people who took out the person in charge, the law and control.

    Those who murdered your family whisper lies to you, they brainwash you and put a gun in your hand and a bomb round your waist. You don't know what is right or what is wrong or who is to blame for the destruction of your way of life. But now there is no laughter in your heart - only hate and confusion.

    This is the reality of the situation. This is why terrorists exist and are created.

    Now - think again about your family.
    Can you just clarify this. You think the person who bombed Manchester has nothing to do with religion, you said in a previous post. That is quite outrageous.

    . In clarification of this point above, you think that Isis strong holds in Syria are to do with foreign governments. You think the murdered victims of Isis crimes, cause people to join Isis and other terrorist groups. This is very f--ked up if I may say so, as is not how the situation is working in the Middle East. This is very ignorant indeed. Can you also consider and comment on the number of people Isis have killed against estimates from foreign forces.

    This is condoning terrorism or whatever word you want to use, because you are legitimising it using this language and that the democratic decisions of our government taken for different reasons allow people to retaliate and be terrorists and that it's acceptable or a reasonable or foreseeable response. In other words our government caused more Isis fighters to kill infinitely more people. Absolutely not. No. It's being an apologist for terrorism. This is what choudhary was doing on tv. Not that isis members should take responsibility for themselves overseas. Do you not realise you are doing this. you are doing this through ignorance.

  10. #160
    Join Date: May 2009

    Location: Bristol

    Posts: 3,733

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    The West (effectively the US and the UK) has, by a series of cack-handed 'interventions', destabilised at least four countries in the Middle East, with hundreds of thousands killed and millions displaced. To suggest that there might be some link between our actions there and the actions of terrorists here is not to condone terrorism, nor does it require belief in some far-fetched conspiracy involving Jill Dando, Jimmy Saville and Princess Diana. The interventions were for a variety of reasons; aiding the 'enemy of our enemy' led to us arming Afghan freedom fighters, who became terrorists when they turned against us. The interventions in Libya and Syria were aimed at promoting democracy and 'freedom'. It's worth bearing in mind what the road to Hell is paved with.

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