Another major (presumably terrorist) incident. Now in Manchester.

[Marco]

People like what, exactly? Folk who refuse to simply swallow what the government and certain parts of the media want you to believe?? 'Outrage' is often the result when you force folk to examine what they fear and don't want to believe is true.

So what's your view on what happened to Jill Dando? The case, to this day, remains unresolved, and much real evidence also remains un-investigated by police. The level of cover-up that's taken place is shocking - and such cover-ups happen all the time!

A lot of what was discussed in that article, in reference to the propaganda angle about Manchester, was mentioned on this very thread earlier, and agreed upon by folks here. *That* is what I'm referring to.

I'm afraid if you can't see the brainwashing and deflection that's taking place (in reference to the forthcoming election, and what that entails, in terms of maintaining the best interests of the elite), and still continuing now, then you're blind.

Marco.

[ianlenco]

I'm no friend of Teresa May or the Tories but to suggest, as some have here, that there was some kind of collusion between the government and security forces to allow the Manchester atrocity to take place for political advantage beggars belief. Instead of offering condolensces to the parents who have lost children and the children who have lost parents this thread has deteriorated into a very unpleasant rant with racist undertones. Perhaps it's time to lock it down or even better delete it and get back to what this forum is supposed to be about - a friendly place to discuss a shared hobby.

[farflungstar]

Holy crap people - we are all appalled and disgusted and saddened by what happened. On this we can agree I think. That we have different opinions on who and why it occurred is normal. Some of us accept the official line whilst others judge governments on past lies and remarkable coincidences. All opinions are valid in a democracy.

There are some sick groups - but there is also concrete evidence that they were trained and armed by the West, namely the US. This cannot be disputed because it is true and accepted.

Those who are truly behind the shit are not stupid - they know that to hide an unpalatable truth that simply have to hide it in the middle of a lot of other, ridiculous conspiracy theories. An example being 9/11. I suggest anyone who has the interest watch Michael Moore's documentary amongst many others.

As to saville - they waited until he was dead before doing anything - why? Because he would open his mouth and speak.

Marco I will check the Dando stuff - but as I've said many lies are spun to hide a single truth.

We are all entitled to hold extremist views - this is not a crime. It is democracy. Unless you want to live in Stalinist Russia. It becomes an offence when those views are put into action.

99.9999% of Muslims are good people. The same cannot be said of Christians, or other faiths who murder each other every day for money, petty squabbles or just because someone's face didn't fit.

I'm very worried for the UK - which is heading down an isolationist, racist, bigoted shit hole of a country populated by people who value only their own family unit and measure themselves by their latest mobile phone purchase or big screen instead of humanity.

[Marco]

I'm no friend of Teresa May or the Tories but to suggest, as some have here, that there was some kind of collusion between the government and security forces to allow the Manchester atrocity to take place for political advantage beggars belief. Instead of offering condolensces to the parents who have lost children and the children who have lost parents this thread has deteriorated into a very unpleasant rant with racist undertones. Perhaps it's time to lock it down or even better delete it and get back to what this forum is supposed to be about - a friendly place to discuss a shared hobby.

Ian, condolences have duly been offered, and of course every one of us is shocked and appalled by what happened in Manchester - that goes without saying (although it has been said many times). What's needed now is some insight into what was responsible for the tragedy, and that's what is currently being debated.

Intelligent people attempt to fathom the reason why such atrocities occur, so in that respect it's inevitable that the discussion will be extrapolated into different areas, some of which may be unpalatable, but often 'ugly truths' are only discovered when people face up to what they dare not believe, and that's what others and I are attempting to do here, simply because there's much more than meets the eye, as portrayed by the media, in terms of Monday's atrocity.

This is also the off-topic section of the forum, where political threads are discussed, so if that isn't to your taste, then with respect, I suggest you ignore it and concentrate instead on the many hi-fi and music discussions taking place alongside this on the main forum

Marco.

[Marco]

Holy crap people - we are all appalled and disgusted and saddened by what happened. On this we can agree I think. That we have different opinions on who and why it occurred is normal. Some of us accept the official line whilst others judge governments on past lies and remarkable coincidences. All opinions are valid in a democracy.

Precisely! And on AoS, we don't shy away from tackling the difficult stuff - head on.

I'll get to the rest of your post in a mo

Marco.

[Marco]

There are some sick groups - but there is also concrete evidence that they were trained and armed by the West, namely the US. This cannot be disputed because it is true and accepted.

Those who are truly behind the shit are not stupid - they know that to hide an unpalatable truth that simply have to hide it in the middle of a lot of other, ridiculous conspiracy theories. An example being 9/11. I suggest anyone who has the interest watch Michael Moore's documentary amongst many others.

Indeed, and I'm with you on the whole 9/11 thing, too. So much that went on there, much of which is virtually indisputable, simply doesn't fit with the account of events, as portrayed by the 'powers that be'

As to saville - they waited until he was dead before doing anything - why? Because he would open his mouth and speak.

Exactly, so if they can cover that up like that, what else is similarly being covered up, in order to pull the wool over our eyes?

Marco I will check the Dando stuff - but as I've said many lies are spun to hide a single truth.

Yup, I get that.

However, please do check out the Dando stuff - and dig DEEP - as you'll have to plough through both the excesses of mentalist nonsense from the worst of the conspiracy theorists, as well as establishment spin, to get to the truth, and trust me, prominent members of the royal family, as well as politicians, are up to their eyes in the whole pedophile ring thing.....

One of the reasons why Saville was never properly investigated for his crimes, while he was alive, was because he had friends in very high places, and so he knew that he was untouchable.

My friend, who's a reporter for one of the national newspapers, said that the editor at the time had suggested on numerous occasions to expose the whole Saville affair, whilst he was alive, but was 'told' by his bosses that they simply couldn't go there...

I could say plenty more on the matter, trust me! But here isn't the appropriate place. In the meantime, in reference to Dando, read this article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ill-Dando.html

Forget that it's the Daily Mail, and concentrate instead on the FACTS Mark Williams-Thomas outlines on the TV show This Morning. It's simply cover-up city!

We are all entitled to hold extremist views - this is not a crime. It is democracy. Unless you want to live in Stalinist Russia. It becomes an offence when those views are put into action.

Indeed, although I don't consider views that have been expressed so far by any of us here as "extremist"; more 'un-blinkered' and free-thinking, than extremist.

If folk simply want to swallow the 'official line', fed to them by the establishment-controlled media, then good luck to them, but please don't act all shocked and affronted when what you've chosen to ignore, to protect your sensibilities, is exposed to justified scrutiny!!

I'm very worried for the UK - which is heading down an isolationist, racist, bigoted shit hole of a country populated by people who value only their own family unit and measure themselves by their latest mobile phone purchase or big screen instead of humanity.

Hear, hear... And Jez provided evidence of that earlier. The sad fact is, we're on an inevitable path to ruin, unless something fundamentally drastic is done now, starting with a vote for ANYONE but the Tories, [or closet, and not so closet, racist parties] on 8th June!

Marco.

[Macca]

People like what, exactly?.

People like the wanker who writes that blog you linked to. People like that disgust me. Deportation is the least worst thing that should happen to them. It should be a criminal offence to express any support for these suicide bombers or to try to excuse their actions in any way. I'm normally an advocate for free speech but free speech does not give anyone the right to shout Fire! in a crowded theatre and offering excuses or support for child murderers is far worse than that.

[farflungstar]

I haven't read that blog. I don't support violence of any type. Period. But I want you to think about this...


Take a moment to think about how you feel for your wife, your kids, your home, yourself.

Now imagine this....

You live in a poor area of scrubland in the back of no where.

You are 12 years old, you don't go to school, and you live with your dad, your mum, and your sister in a little house raising goats. You're happy. Life is simple. The sun rises and sets. Laughter is within your home and your heart.

Then one day you see planes crossing the sky. You hear your parents whispering together at night. The ruler of your land has been killed by outsiders. They are afraid but they tell you not to worry.

Then a few weeks later people you recognise as from your own people turn up and you watch as your sister is raped in front of your family and sold into prostitution, as your mum is raped then butchered, and as a bullet is put into the head of your weeping father.

Who do you blame for this - the people who did it or the people who took out the person in charge, the law and control.

Those who murdered your family whisper lies to you, they brainwash you and put a gun in your hand and a bomb round your waist. You don't know what is right or what is wrong or who is to blame for the destruction of your way of life. But now there is no laughter in your heart - only hate and confusion.

This is the reality of the situation. This is why terrorists exist and are created.

Now - think again about your family.

[Dynamics]

People like the wanker who writes that blog you linked to. People like that disgust me. Deportation is the least worst thing that should happen to them. It should be a criminal offence to express any support for these suicide bombers or to try to excuse their actions in any way. I'm normally an advocate for free speech but free speech does not give anyone the right to shout Fire! in a crowded theatre and offering excuses or support for child murderers is far worse than that.

I totally agree with you martin. Ok so I will say it..... The rubbish being said by Adrian is ignorant and beggars belief and it's the same crap these jihadi symphathises and jihadists come up with. You are right it should be banned. What he ignores is that Isis is killing more of their own but different types of Muslim then any American plane or planes or army etc. Read about what they are doing to the yadize people. Watch the Stacey Dooley film on that issue, and female defence forces.

He needs to read a few books on the subject or read a paper. The ignorance is unbelievable and I actually think we have so many ill educated and ignorant people in this country. He can't understand that these Isis groups are hi jacking a political agenda for their ideal and Islamic state agenda with strict Islamic laws interpreted by the Koran strictly i terpretated. Islamic Terrorism exists where these people hi jack political ideals i.e. Use American planes collateral damage (for a different reason e.g. Removal of hussein and Iraq conflict with regime change) to sustain a cause of an Islamic state, recruiting these nut jobs who go to Syria etc. Islamic terrorism can be traced back long before the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's a complex interplay of social problems of people in developing countries, their lack of education and concept of civil rights in a civilised society, strong religion, etc.

The problem is gullible people believe what some of these jihadi symphathises say and have no idea of how it is in reality on the ground in these countries.

[Arkless Electronics]

I don't agree with a single word of it. in fact I'd like to see people like that kicked out of the country. Put them on a plane and wave goodbye to them. It's no different from attempting to justify the Moors Murderers. I'm appalled that you would even link to it.

And for balance... I do agree with virtually every word of it and disagree with pretty much everything you and "Dynamics" say...