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Thread: Another major (presumably terrorist) incident. Now in Manchester.

  1. #61
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    The UK government realised the power it had due to the gullibility and let's face it stupidity of the UK population on 7/7. How coincidental that a major terrorist attack on the underground and on public transport simulation was taking place in more or less the same location on the same day, at the same time. They passed this off as sheer coincidence and the sheep that bleat in servitude believed them. What this actually means is that either they knew it was going to happen but did nothing to warn citizens or they carried it out. There really is no other conclusion to draw unless you're a village idiot.

    This was done to justify war in Iraq - and by association adds credibility to the 9/11 cover up.

    It astounds me how stupid people can be. There should have been a public inquiry - but it was swept under the carpet - and those of us who question it are classed as being on the loony fringe when it's actually the other way round.
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  2. #62
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by LC1979 View Post
    That's your prerogative, and I completely understand and respect that view. I only wish I could share it.

    I wouldn't wish to call this out as a false flag with so little evidence. And what constitutes a FF anyway? Complete orchestration by the secret services, or an even less accountable subgroup therein? Colluding and actively supporting or directing an attacker? Or knowing of a planned attack and allowing it to occur at a certain time by manipulating events in subtle ways?

    Of course, these are in ascending order of plausibility. If you cannot fathom that any such thing could occur in the UK I would encourage you to really examine why you feel it is so impossible.

    Wars have always been waged for the advantage of the elites, and many innocent lives sacrificed for the securing of wealth and power. Other justifications were created for the purposes of motivating the masses, naturally. It is ever the same. Innocent lives sacrificed for the greater good (of the powerful).

    Did you notice the groundswell of support Jeremy Corbyn was mobilising, especially among the young. Noticed what an anti-war pacifist he is? What would the implications be if he were to be the PM of the UK?

    If you don't​ think that the military-industrial complex/ deep state/ whatever you want to call it has a vested interest in this election (or don't believe that such a thing exists) and that they wouldn't be prepared to meddle in a bit of terrorism to further their interests (as they do on a regular basis in the ME, I believe, actively fostering groups such as AlQaeda and ISIS) then there is clearly very little that I or anyone else could say that might make you think twice about it being "utterly risible".

    Again, I can't say what happened was 100% one thing or another, but to ignore the possibility is to deny the reality of the world we live in, unfortunately.
    At best I would be prepared to accept a small possibility that they knew something might happen but did nothing. As Grant says that sort of decision was taken several times in WW2. However to relate that to this specific situation then I think no. To imply that it was a political decision is ludicrous. Aside from the sheer cold bloodedness it would require there would also be the danger of it leaking out.

    As for Corbyn and the idea that he was getting a 'groundswell of support' prior to this, that is sheer wishful thinking. He really is a no-hoper and has been since he was a child. As for being a 'man of peace', I'm sorry, but he is just hopelessly naïve.

    If some miracle were to happen and he did get elected he would soon discover that his simplistic moral stance would atomise in the face of cold hard reality and he would quickly become as unpopular with those who voted for him as Blair became after Iraq.
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  3. #63
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Manchester, UK

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    I'm Luke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    No because this has zero credibility i.e. conspiracy theories. I can cast out the possibility aliens live in my flat with me, because I haven't seen any at home with me.
    Not a very good analogy.

    Zero credibility if you only watch Aunty Beeb, but gains credibility once you begin to do some independent research. CIA training of jihadists, funding of these groups by US/UK allies (Saudi Arabia, Quatar etc). Going back to the 1960s and 70s at least. Not imagined, not a conspiracy theory.

    What about proven false flags such as the Israeli secret service bombings in Cairo in 1954? Not imagined, not a conspiracy theory.

    How much better at covering their tracks do you think they might have gotten in 60 years?

    I'm beginning to think there might well be aliens in your flat, you're just not looking hard enough...

  4. #64
    Join Date: Feb 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    The UK government realised the power it had due to the gullibility and let's face it stupidity of the UK population on 7/7. How coincidental that a major terrorist attack on the underground and on public transport simulation was taking place in more or less the same location on the same day, at the same time. They passed this off as sheer coincidence and the sheep that bleat in servitude believed them. What this actually means is that either they knew it was going to happen but did nothing to warn citizens or they carried it out. There really is no other conclusion to draw unless you're a village idiot.

    This was done to justify war in Iraq - and by association adds credibility to the 9/11 cover up.

    It astounds me how stupid people can be. There should have been a public inquiry - but it was swept under the carpet - and those of us who question it are classed as being on the loony fringe when it's actually the other way round.
    This is a bit offensive to be saying this on a day like this after what's happened. I was at Aldgate on 7/7 and the office for the company I worked at was just around the corner at crutched friars. I saw people being taken out with horrendous injuries, stopped to do what I could. To think that someone thinks that a government would then go to massive lengths to find out what happened is appalling really.

    I'm not going to say anything else on this thread as I might regret what I might say.

  5. #65
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    At best I would be prepared to accept a small possibility that they knew something might happen but did nothing. As Grant says that sort of decision was taken several times in WW2. However to relate that to this specific situation then I think no. To imply that it was a political decision is ludicrous. Aside from the sheer cold bloodedness it would require there would also be the danger of it leaking out.

    As for Corbyn and the idea that he was getting a 'groundswell of support' prior to this, that is sheer wishful thinking. He really is a no-hoper and has been since he was a child. As for being a 'man of peace', I'm sorry, but he is just hopelessly naïve.

    If some miracle were to happen and he did get elected he would soon discover that his simplistic moral stance would atomise in the face of cold hard reality and he would quickly become as unpopular with those who voted for him as Blair became after Iraq.
    The thing about change is it takes one person to make it first, to break the status quo. This is the same for arm sales. Someone posted that if we don't sell them then someone else would - well fine - let them have blood on their hands for the sake of money - why should we - why can't we take a moral stance?

    Yes Jeremy would find things more difficult than he might think - but I prefer to be ruled by idealism than by fear and control.
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  6. #66
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    This is a bit offensive to be saying this on a day like this after what's happened. I was at Aldgate on 7/7 and the office for the company I worked at was just around the corner at crutched friars. I saw people being taken out with horrendous injuries, stopped to do what I could. To think that someone thinks that a government would then go to massive lengths to find out what happened is appalling really.

    I'm not going to say anything else on this thread as I might regret what I might say.
    Why is it offensive? It's true, isn't it or am I wrong and the simulation took place a year before, or a week before, or a day before? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I do get things arse about tit sometimes.

    You're welcome to draw your conclusion that it was sheer coincidence - and likewise, if it's true, I'm able to draw my own that it wasn't coincidence.

    No one, including myself, is saying what happened wasnt appalling, but that isn't enough to not question it - unless I've got my dates wrong.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    I'm not going to say anything else on this thread as I might regret what I might say.
    This is undoubtedly an emotive discussion, and so folks are passionate about their opinions, but there's nothing being said here so far that's offensive or out of order.

    It's a good debate, with some excellent points being made, by everyone who's participating, so let's not spoil it with getting upset by strongly held views expressed, which are contrary to our own. Let's keep calm, debate the relevant issues, and respect the fact that we're never all going to agree

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  8. #68
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    The thing about change is it takes one person to make it first, to break the status quo. This is the same for arm sales. Someone posted that if we don't sell them then someone else would - well fine - let them have blood on their hands for the sake of money - why should we - why can't we take a moral stance?

    Yes Jeremy would find things more difficult than he might think - but I prefer to be ruled by idealism than by fear and control.
    Reminds me of Homer Simpson's description of Christianity: 'The one with all the well-meaning rules that don't work in real life.'

    If we lived in Rainbow Land then I would agree with you. But we don't, it is a hard , cold world and hard, cold decisions need to be taken all day every day. That is never going to change and if we were adopt a Rainbow Land approach to the world we would be eaten alive in days.

    The job of the government is not to 'care' about people. The job of the government is to prevent anarchy and chaos. That is because no matter how bad you might think it is now for 'the disadvantaged and vulnerable', if there was anarchy and chaos it would be a million times worse for them.

    They are pretty good at it in this country, they have had a thousand years of practical experience, of course. But it does mean we can squander our time discussing such high level concepts as opposed to spending all our efforts trying to find food, shelter and avoiding injury and death.

    Consequently I find it strange that people born and brought up in the exceptional stability and safety of this country should be so aggressively anti the very 'establishment' that provides that stability and security, regarding it as an enemy that needs to be torn down because it is not moral enough, or not idealistic enough.

    It is the idealists who are the problem. The people who want to change the world have caused more death and suffering in history than everyone else combined.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    So there you go.. to British thicko Daily Mail reading, UKIP voting scum a local white British girl getting bitten by a dog is infinitely more important than the lives of 400 Iraqis being lost. Mad dogs and English woman...
    Broadly speaking, I agree that the "us and them" mentality is at the root of most conflicts - however, it wasn't UKIP that took us into the war with Iraq, it was a party that liked to portray itself as liberal.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Reminds me of Homer Simpson's description of Christianity: 'The one with all the well-meaning rules that don't work in real life.'

    If we lived in Rainbow Land then I would agree with you. But we don't, it is a hard , cold world and hard, cold decisions need to be taken all day every day. That is never going to change and if we were adopt a Rainbow Land approach to the world we would be eaten alive in days.

    The job of the government is not to 'care' about people. The job of the government is to prevent anarchy and chaos. That is because no matter how bad you might think it is now for 'the disadvantaged and vulnerable', if there was anarchy and chaos it would be a million times worse for them.

    They are pretty good at it in this country, they have had a thousand years of practical experience, of course. But it does mean we can squander our time discussing such high level concepts as opposed to spending all our efforts trying to find food, shelter and avoiding injury and death.

    Consequently I find it strange that people born and brought up in the exceptional stability and safety of this country should be so aggressively anti the very 'establishment' that provides that stability and security, regarding it as an enemy that needs to be torn down because it is not moral enough, or not idealistic enough.

    It is the idealists who are the problem. The people who want to change the world have caused more death and suffering in history than everyone else combined.
    Anarchy and chaos - ahhhh yes - exactly what we gave to the middle East - poor poor people.
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