Another major (presumably terrorist) incident. Now in Manchester.

[Dynamics]

I'm not getting back into this conversation (lol) but Christian missionaries burnt African children alive if they didn't accept Christ - this wasn't so long ago.

Yes but Martin had it right the New Testament version of the bible isn't as violent than the Koran, and the point has been missed in the replies except tom referring to society, is that christians believe in the more important aspects of the bible, whereas there are plenty of Muslim countries and extremists who interpret the Koran very seriously indeed. And in addition this influence of our society on a religious text has its bearing which is missed too. The punishment for apostecy can't be death if society doesn't tolerate murder. But if society as in some intolerant Muslim countries, doesn't rate the human rights of people, they die by the religious text. And that's a huge issue and problem.

[farflungstar]

I saw it on a BBC documentary about 15 years ago.

[Dynamics]

Strictly speaking, for a Christian, much of that old testament stuff is literally just history (about half of it is exacty that - histories of rulers, armies, slavery and so on), it's not a guide on how to act.

Jesus said 'turn the other cheek'. At various times his followers might not have heeded that, but nevertheless that is what he said.

Life might be a lot simpler if Mohammed had said something similar rather than give an instruction to spread the faith by conquest (indeed Mohammed spent a fair chunk of his life at the head of an army). Whatever your take on all this theologically, it's a pretty fundamental difference.

Absolutely and Mohammed cut people's heads off. I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't do that.

[Dynamics]

I'm not getting back into this conversation (lol) but Christian missionaries burnt African children alive if they didn't accept Christ - this wasn't so long ago.

That's not to say all Christians acted equally. Only that there are always lunatics on the fringes of any ideology.

Terrorism takes many forms - massacring the entire population of buffalo in the states so the native Indians died of starvation is state terrorism.

Evil doesn't pick sides - it finds opportunities.

Except christians aren't blowing themselves up around the world with other people frequently at present, and this is a current issue not a passed one. If they did so currently in the name of Christianity, then we would be asking questions of the Christian faith and rightly so.

[farflungstar]

This really is my last post in this thread - but the pious hypocrisy on display is beyond belief. Hitler was Christian and we had the holocaust, American Christians were hanging and burning alive black people in the deep south less than 60 years ago. There are evil people in all faiths - doing evil things in the name of those faiths. To deny that beggars belief and perpetuates the them and us situation that leads to nothing but division and trouble.

[montesquieu]

You've got a reliable reference for that?

I was thinking that myself - I havenever heard of such a thing.

And the comment also misses the point. While such things may well have happened in the distant past, there is nothing in Christian theology or scripture to sanction that behaviour.

Sadly, the text is right there in Islam, not least where Mohammed himself ordered mass killings. To say this is a problem in todays world is rather an understatement.

[montesquieu]

This really is my last post in this thread - but the pious hypocrisy on display is beyond belief. Hitler was Christian and we had the holocaust, American Christians were hanging and burning alive black people in the deep south less than 60 years ago. There are evil people in all faiths - doing evil things in the name of those faiths. To deny that beggars belief and perpetuates the them and us situation that leads to nothing but division and trouble.

1) Hitler wasn't a Christian, many Christians went to the concentration camps. He may have been baptised a Christian at birth but he didn't rule as a Christian leader or practice any recognised form of Christianity, indeed he murdered those Christians who stood on Christian principles against his rule.

2) You totally miss the point - again. So-called Christians did indeed commit atrocities in the deep south or the American west but this is NOT sanctioned in the Christian religion. Muslim terrorists quote the Koran in their killings of innocent people.

It's not hypocrisy to make the distinction - and frankly Adey you are either being either a bit thick here or deliberately ignoring the facts to suit your prejudices.

[Macca]

This really is my last post in this thread - but the pious hypocrisy on display is beyond belief. Hitler was Christian and we had the holocaust, American Christians were hanging and burning alive black people in the deep south less than 60 years ago. There are evil people in all faiths - doing evil things in the name of those faiths. To deny that beggars belief and perpetuates the them and us situation that leads to nothing but division and trouble.

Hitler was an atheist and the other things you mention were done by Christians, not in the name of Christianity but for reasons not related to religion at all.

[JohnJo]

Really? The Old Testament is full of it; either God smiting various people, or destroying whole cities, or the Jews slaughtering their enemies at God's command:

Make ready to slaughter the infidel’s sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.
Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children."
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.
This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'
Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Hi Joe, don't really want to get involved in the original topic of this thread but wanted to say the religion of The Old Testament is Judaism, not Christianity (although its purpose was to point to the work of Christ but that's definitely a new thread). When a new testament is put in place the old becomes null and void.

Just saying

[Dynamics]

I was thinking that myself - I havenever heard of such a thing.

And the comment also misses the point. While such things may well have happened in the distant past, there is nothing in Christian theology or scripture to sanction that behaviour.

Sadly, the text is right there in Islam, not least where Mohammed himself ordered mass killings. To say this is a problem in todays world is rather an understatement.

Absolutely.