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Thread: Blind phono stage & amp; Capacitor testing

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  1. #1
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Kipling View Post
    WOW,,,

    No sleep for me tonight, then.

    But then you have individuals like: Nelson Pass, John Curl. Walt Jung, Joe Curcio - who freely share (and have done for decades) their knowledge.



    Sent from my CUBOT_NOTE_S using Tapatalk
    Why no sleep?

    If you want to know how I came to my conclusion then ill happily share that knowledge with you

    Im pretty sure, Apple, Samsung etc dont reveal their secrets. They tell you what their products do, not how they do it, parts they use etc.

    Pretty standard approach really.





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  2. #2
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,625
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Kipling View Post
    Am I being more dense than usual here
    Best I don't answer that.


    Seriously though, capacitor comparisons have value. They can affect sonic characteristics.

    Marco did an interesting series of similar tests with his passive pre-amp not long ago.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  3. #3
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Best I don't answer that.


    Seriously though, capacitor comparisons have value. They can affect sonic characteristics.

    Marco did an interesting series of similar tests with his passive pre-amp not long ago.
    Oooh i shall look that up.

    This has certainly opened my eyes to the value of comparisons of components. I felt some were better at getting out the way of the music while others were way too imposing. Thats what i found with the Zn's. They were too smooth and it sounded dull. The Signal Paths were excellent for a "live Sound" but didn't have the best Mid range in the end. The Mundorf Evos are the best of the rest in my opinion but i ended up putting about 40 hours through them before they got good. They would be a very good upgrade for most products and they are very inexpensive. The ones we had from HiFi collective were under £5 ex VAT for the pair i think.

    Oh! The Mundorf Evos are in the Tron too. They are a very good choice.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    Debian, and the 285 or so other operating systems http://distrowatch.com most, which you can
    use, copy and share, are free to change to do what you want, and free to contribute to,
    to improve. so vastly different to the don't's you explained in Post 23

    The hardware is then the software, due to the kernel https://www.kernel.org/ being constantly updated
    to reflect the hardware's features.

  5. #5
    RothwellAudio Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    So the contenders were (minus the winner, thats a secret ;D )

    Random 0.72p polypropylene Cap

    Random Polystyrene cap

    Mundorf ZN Cap

    Signal Path Cap

    Mundorf Evo Cap

    Random £1. 50 Polypropylene cap

    Plus the winning cap.
    Without the circuit diagram and without knowing the values (capacitance and voltage) these tests are too vague to draw any broad conclusions from imho.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    Im pretty sure, Apple, Samsung etc dont reveal their secrets. They tell you what their products do, not how they do it, parts they use etc.

    Pretty standard approach really.
    Yes, I don't see any reason why a commercial organisation shouldn't have secrets - seems perfectly normal to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    But a now a very outdated approach, that you do not have to put up with.
    People are free to share knowledge if they choose to. People are also free to keep the results of their research secrets if they choose to. The patent, copyright and trademark system is there to protect people's intellectual property and I don't see anything wrong with that.

  6. #6
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Yes, I don't see any reason why a commercial organisation shouldn't have secrets - seems perfectly normal to me.
    People are free to share knowledge if they choose to. People are also free to keep the results of their research secrets if they choose to. The patent, copyright and trademark system is there to protect people's intellectual property and I don't see anything wrong with that.
    Yes but where software is concerned, they twist copyright to include at the sale point a licence agreement that contains clauses
    that places the paying customer neatly with them as a product. Clauses which enable them to sell information about you.

    As you cannot view the source code, let alone use the software, copy and help others, change the software to make
    it do what you want, or contribute those changes to assist globally, it is now very much a redundant and useless platform.
    But if you want to be a guinea pig for them, that is of course up to you. http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/

  7. #7
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Without the circuit diagram and without knowing the values (capacitance and voltage) these tests are too vague to draw any broad conclusions from imho.

    Yes, I don't see any reason why a commercial organisation shouldn't have secrets - seems perfectly normal to me.


    People are free to share knowledge if they choose to. People are also free to keep the results of their research secrets if they choose to. The patent, copyright and trademark system is there to protect people's intellectual property and I don't see anything wrong with that.
    Broad conclusions, no. I would say that in different applications or different positions in the circuit it would have a totally different effect but in this application, this was what I found.

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  8. #8
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Debian, and the 285 or so other operating systems http://distrowatch.com most, which you can
    use, copy and share, are free to change to do what you want, and free to contribute to,
    to improve. so vastly different to the don't's you explained in Post 23

    The hardware is then the software, due to the kernel https://www.kernel.org/ being constantly updated
    to reflect the hardware's features.
    How about an example thats cost the researcher money rather than someone sitting there writing code? Opensource is one thing. Research is another.




    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

    Posts: 1,757
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    How about an example thats cost the researcher money rather than someone sitting there writing code? Opensource is one thing. Research is another.
    Open source is different to Free Software definitions, open source is a half way attempt at Free Software
    not quite in tune with everything that is possible.

    You need to embrace that free software is a global community of like minded users, willing to
    constantly improve code. Here for example are those working on Debian today. https://raphaelhertzog.com/tag/Freexian+LTS/
    they are paid by Debian so Yes costing the researcher money., they do this up to a set number of hours per month.
    Typically they achieve 190 hours of work contributed by 13-14 persons.

    Now try and find who or how many people are working on proprietary software - hmmm very hidden and unavailable hey !

    Debian is just one operating system. Have a look at Linux Mint, http://www.linuxmint.com and see what great work is being done
    with 5 desktop versions, and you should fall off your chair looking at the work Mageia http://www.mageia.org who are ex
    employees of Mandriva have done, to bring you Version 6. and many many others, hard at work trying to help you....and the world.

  10. #10
    Bigman80 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Light Dependant Resistor View Post
    Open source is different to Free Software definitions, open source is a half way attempt at Free Software
    not quite in tune with everything that is possible.

    You need to embrace that free software is a global community of like minded users, willing to
    constantly improve code. Here for example are those working on Debian today. https://raphaelhertzog.com/tag/Freexian+LTS/
    they are paid by Debian so Yes costing the researcher money., they do thisup to a set number of hours per month.
    Typically they achieve 190 hours of work contributed by 13-14 persons.

    Now try and find who or how many people are working on proprietary software - hmmm very hidden and unavailable hey !

    Debian is just one operating system. Have a look at Linux Mint, http;//www.linuxmint.com and see what great work is being done
    with 5 desktop versions, and you should fall off your chair looking at the work Mageia http;//www.mageia.org who are ex
    employees of Mandriva have done, to bring you Version 6. and many many others, hard at work trying to help you....and the world.
    Im not going to pretend to be knowledgeable in this area as software, freeware etc because im not. What I am aware of is that they WILL be getting paid somewhere down the line. Nothing is free in any walk of life. Debian will be getting money somewhere.

    From their website

    "Debian does not make any money from the sale of CDs. At the same time, money is needed to pay for expenses such as domain registration and hardware. Thus, we ask that you buy from one of the*CD vendors*that*donates*a portion of your purchase to Debian"


    My point was - show me a manufacturer of audio goods that freely gives away the trade secrets of the products they are currently developing. I cant find any.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

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