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Thread: Digital audio vs vinyl

  1. #131
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I am surprised your Hi Rez files always sound better as this had not been my experience as some of the mastering can be s@!t on Hi Rez material?
    Hi Jim,

    I should've said that they only always sound better, *given* that the recording and mastering quality allows so

    Marco.
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    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

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  2. #132
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    okay replace 'guarantee' with 'bet any amount of money you like'
    Ha - you shouldn't issue me with challenges like that, as I have a habit of ensuring that it bites those on the bum, issuing me with such a challenge!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  3. #133
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    In this case I'm safe as houses
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #134
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Hi Chris
    But not all sounds recorded were via microphones, Keyboards and synthesizers possibly had some output at those frequencies
    where connected directly to a recording device. Sadly mixers would tend to limit upper frequencies, but also adding frequencies of
    their own.

    Without researching every instrument used by every band in every recording capable of having frequencies above 20khz that might or could have been recorded directly - now there's a task for a Sunday afternoon just after a good lunch and a quick read of Three words daily to
    prepare one's self , evidence points that the recording devices were capable. Here are graphs of 15ips tape machines frequency response, http://www.endino.com/graphs/ quite a few showing rising frequency response above 20khz. a 30ips would improve further. A Neumann VMS70 lathe used in direct to disc recording its SX74 cutting head had frequency capability of minus 3db at 25Khz

    Adding to the complexity of discussing frequency is of course speed stability and phase coherency. It is perhaps where these
    attributes of a recording are attained, that frequencies above 20khz become possible to preserve correctly.

    And there is always the future, where 50khz recording devices can be used.

    Cheers / Chris







    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    The fact remains that the majority of microphones used to record many of the classic albums of the 60s and 70s (which still make up the majority of recordings that get rehashed as "Hi Res") didn't do.

    Take yer good old Shure SM-57 - it's quoted frequency response is 40Hz-15KHz.
    It was developed for recording orchestras.
    It's not known as "the sound of rock" for nothing, because it's suitable for any job - drums, guitar, vocals, you name it, and it has been used for all of those jobs over the decades.
    It is still widely used.

    It's similar with the Shure SM-58, only it's response is 50Hz-15KHz.
    It's still the first choice stage mic of many artists, and it's still used in studios too.

    That's just two legendary microphones.
    Look at something more recent from Neumann, such as the TLM 103 - its response is quoted as 20Hz-20KHz, but it nose dives from around 16KHz.

    They're all great sounding mics, and will continue to be used for decades to come.
    They're not going to get thrown out because the frequency response doesn't go up high into the areas where bats use sound for echo location.

    I'm not saying that microphones that can capture sound above human hearing aren't out there.
    They are, and they're expensive.
    They're usually in the domain of the top flight recording studio, and they're getting thinner on the ground as each year passes. Even the mighty Abbey Road Studios has had its share of financial insecurity in recent times.
    And when you weigh up that you can buy ten SM-57s, for the cost of one Sennheiser 8050, which do you think is going to continue to be the most widely used?

  5. #135
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    But this overlooks a fundamental which is that we can't hear these frequencies. The idea that frequencies above 20Khz affect how we hear frequencies that are audible is, as far as I am aware, idle speculation/clutching at straws. If anyone has a link to something suggesting otherwise please post it.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  6. #136
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    But this overlooks a fundamental which is that we can't hear these frequencies. The idea that frequencies above 20Khz affect how we hear frequencies that are audible is, as far as I am aware, idle speculation/clutching at straws. If anyone has a link to something suggesting otherwise please post it.
    EDIT with direct injection recording the frequency limitations of the desk must also be take into consideration
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #137
    Join Date: Sep 2013

    Location: North Island New Zealand

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    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    EDIT with direct injection recording the frequency limitations of the desk must also be take into consideration
    See Post 124 and this article http://wilson-benesch.com/reviews/Li...C_Sep-1998.pdf
    the work done by David Blackmer into the ability of human hearing to perceive sounds above 20khz

    Yes mixing desks are capable of limiting frequency, and must be improved. On the plus side fets and mosfets
    are capable out to 100's of Mhz if not Ghz

    It open's many possibilities when we think above 20khz for both recording and playback.

  8. #138
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

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    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    But this overlooks a fundamental which is that we can't hear these frequencies. The idea that frequencies above 20Khz affect how we hear frequencies that are audible is, as far as I am aware, idle speculation/clutching at straws. If anyone has a link to something suggesting otherwise please post it.
    I find a supertweeter affects what I can hear quite noticeable and I can't consciously perceive sounds above 10kHz.
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  9. #139
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    Not a lot of people know this... (and I only said to blow the bloody doors off!) but phase changes begin to have an effect around 10 times earlier in frequency (at both extremes) than amplitude. This is one of the reasons I usually produce kit with <1Hz - 200KHz+ type frequency responses.. Also the ear is far from linear and can produce intermodulation distortion so, if we have two frequencies of say 24KHz and 26KHz there will be some 2KHz and 50KHz produced
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

    Modded Thorens TD150, Audio Technica AT-1005 MkII, Technics EPC-300MC, Arkless Hybrid MC phono stage, Arkless passive pre, Arkless 50WPC Class A SS power amp, (or) Arkless modded Leak Stereo 20, Modded Kef Reference 105/3's
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  10. #140
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    That's not the same thing though is it? Isn't it the case that most amplifiers are not bandwidth-limited is not because we can actually hear anything at that frequency but for other reasons unrelated to audible frequency reaponse?
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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