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Thread: Digital audio vs vinyl

  1. #101
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

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    I'm Brian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Hi Marco,

    When I first joined this site one of the first people I met on AOS was a chap called Steve who kindly offered to clean some records for me as he is only 5 minutes round the corner. Steve now has a business selling high end equipment and has become a good friend over the years.

    Not only does he sell very good equipment he also has an extraordinary environment in which to listen, it is unique and very special.

    I don't want to say anything more about him on this post but if you would like to know more just PM or give me a call.

    Jim
    This is the gent Marco . James took me for a visit . You owe it to yourself to have a listen to this system
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server .
    DAC 3 French DAC
    Amplifier : Rega Brio R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Chord Epic Twin

  2. #102
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 73,907
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    If he's ok with it, Brian, then I fully intend to

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  3. #103
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 1,425
    I'm Adrian.

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    The last time I had a CD based system was back in the late eighties. One of the best money could buy back then before oligarchs created a market for ridiculous prices and interconnects that cost more than a car.

    It was the then top of the line Roksan two box player that looked like something out of star trek, coupled to Audio Innovations 2nd audio triode monoblocks plus preamp hooked up with twin and earth to KEF R107 2s. It was superb and gave me years of pleasure. It didn't require tweaking or anything else - switch it on and settle back.

    Fast forward to 2017 and an all Analogue rig, again with some of the best components (within normality, well maybe a little outside of it) and it's a different story. I'm quite sure it's superior (except speakers) - and it gives me great pleasure but tweaking is now the order of the day - just a few fractions of a gram out and the sound changes, a change in temperature and the sound changes - and so whilst the sound is sublime it takes a little pampering to be at its best.

    One of the reasons I won't put a CD player into the system (though im tempted) is that laziness and convenience plus consistency might take me away from vinyl, not to mention prices and availability. My last purchase cost me 170 for vinyl - the same album 10 on CD.
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
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  4. #104
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 1,845
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    One of the reasons I won't put a CD player into the system (though im tempted) is that laziness and convenience plus consistency might take me away from vinyl, not to mention prices and availability. My last purchase cost me 170€ for vinyl - the same album €10 on CD.
    One of the reasons I like vinyl is the potential for building good library of LPs on shoestring budget. Yesterday I bought six LPs for $12.00. Yes, they're used, but after cleaning them in my RCM, they sound almost mint.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  5. #105
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 1,845
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YNWaN View Post
    The best vinyl systems are now tonally pretty much identical to a very good digital solution and the differences boil down to stereo imagery, depth and subtle aspects like lyricism and palpability.
    I like how you describe the differences, and I think the key word may be 'palpability'. Personally, I could look at this debate using two kinds of reasoning: inductive and deductive.

    If inductive (i.e. 'where there is smoke there is fire') I can use my direct experience of listening to vinyl and listening to digital, and conclude which one is better. No theory, no 'but this or that expert says that one or the other is better', merely my subjective experience.

    If deductive, I can start from the so-call first principles (or fundamentals). What is music? Music is a phenomenon that results from the moving parts. Certain objects move mechanically, they stir the air molecules, and the next thing we know, we hear music.

    Viewing things in that light, I see that vinyl reproduction is the result of mechanically moving parts. The turntable platter rotates, the stylus travels inside the grooves, it vibrates, the cartridge body vibrates, and so on. If you place your ear close to the cartridge while it's on the rotating LP, you will hear MUSIC (providing that you switch the volume off).

    If you play digital source, when you switch the volume off, you won't hear a thing. That means that digital is not the result of moving parts, but is rather a result of algorithms. In other words, digital is made from NOTHING.

    Which is remarkable, but certainly not palpable. So personally, I'd always go for the palpable experience.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  6. #106
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 3,218
    I'm James.

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    So the largest hifi show and probably the best on the planet is coming to an end in Munich and up pops a small review of the show covering the different technologies on offer.

    I wonder which one the reviewer feels is the most popular, current and preferred at the show. The last paragraph captures the reasons why.

    https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2017/...music-mediums/
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  7. #107
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 659
    I'm Russell.

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    As I have written in other threads, if you visited my home and heard both the same music from my CD player and my record player, in the first 3 minutes you would declare Digital the winner! But, it is after listening for a time, that one album spurs me on to play the next. Before that record is over, I've decided on the next one to play! The vinyl compels me to keep listening. For some Audible reason that's hard to put a finger on. The CD seems to do every "thing", better. Palpability may be the reason? Hard to say.

    I've always made the analogy that analog is like looking at yourself in the mirror, while digital is like seeing yourself in a photograph. Of course, that doesn't really apply to the subject here, as most vinyl records are digitally mastered these days. This subject is more about the physical playback mechanism. It can be hard for some to separate their fondness of the mechanical nature of vinyl playback, where they buy hand made cartridges and have the ability to set the VTF and VTA, etc. much more hands on and tweakable. While others enjoy the convenience of digital, no adjustments to make, insert a disc, or pull up a file, and play, no worries about washing and flipping half way. I would guess that most desire one format or the other for these reasons, more so than sound quality. Even myself, owning both, I will play a CD if I'm working around the house, or not in the mood to tend to it. And I will spin records if I am actively listening, or entertaining. So, the convenience or desire to participate does influence which format I choose. One of my best friends has a killer vinyl collection! But he hasn't had a working record player in years, and has over a thousand CD's in his collection, his decision is completely based on convenience, he has no desire to tend to the needs of a record player. I'm in the process of trying to buy most of his records now. So what I'm getting at is, it could be very easy to rationalize which is best, based on our underlying desire to use a particular format.

    But from cost no object systems I've heard in the past, and even some reasonable systems, one can build a most satisfying stereo around either format. Neither has a clear lead over the other, and there are plenty to be found in either camp.




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  8. #108
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 426
    I'm Simon.

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    I never understand why these kind of threads crop up all the time on audio forums, seems a bit silly to me personally - seems like going around in circles every few months or so. My opinion is that there really is no clear winner as both formats have pros and cons but if you ask me both can be superb to listen to if the recording and how it is contained allows it.

    Mastering and lineage is key. I may only have a budget system compared to most but I enjoy both CD, streaming and Vinyl playback and while there is a very slight different sound signature between them if the mastering is good I really don't favour either and enjoy whatever format I'm in the mood/have time for. I find that where a recording is all analog, vinyl will usually (but not always) shine better than if it were pressed from digital files. However I do have some Vinyl pressed from hi-res digital files which sound amazing. I do also have lots of ''modern'' LP's which I suspect are pressed using CD mastered files and you can really tell. The LP will usually sound a tad less brittle/harsh but no sonic revelation over the CD. I also find that all digital recordings (DDD) will usually sound best if kept digital and mastered well.

    I think it really just comes down to what people prefer as no matter what the source there will always be differences, however small because even though speakers and amps will be the same, an LP has to go through a stylus/cart/arm/phono and CD/files through a laser/processor/DAC. I also believe some people are just biased from the get go, nothing wrong with that but seems pointless if not giving an equal chance.

    So for me, I enjoy all formats - if it sounds good it's bloody good no matter what it is being played on. Mastering will always be key. You can't make something sound good if it has been compromised somewhere along the chain before it even reaches your playback chain.

  9. #109
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 73,907
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    I do agree, Simon, but I guess forums would die pretty quickly without some form of discussion, especially on 'hop topics' such as this. Incidentally, I feel exactly the same about threads revolving around the notion of: 'Do Cables Make A Difference?'

    Marco.
    http://www.thestainedglasscompany.com

    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do" -- Milan Kundera.

  10. #110
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 426
    I'm Simon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I do agree, Simon, but I guess forums would die pretty quickly without some form of discussion, especially on 'hop topics' such as this. Incidentally, I feel exactly the same about threads revolving around the notion of: 'Do Cables Make A Difference?'

    Marco.
    True, haha.

    Nothing wrong with healthy discussion and I do enjoy reading different views, some can get a bit mad at times though haha.

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