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  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

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    I'm James.

    Default Digital audio vs vinyl

    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...rs-new-server/

    I must admit I agree with most of this article as I think it honestly compares the merits of both. I feel the final conclusion to be true but I am not so stuck in the vinyl camp as I was as I have heard a system that made me feel there could be room for digital in my life if only I had the cash.

    From what I have heard the lines between excellent analog and state of the art digital are blurred even more.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

    Second System : Goldring Lenco GL75 / AT95EX / Pioneer SX590 / Spendor SP2

  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Many ways of skinning a cat but I'd agree that Digital is approaching Vinyl now, even for the poorer of us as Technology improves.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  3. #3
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by struth View Post
    Many ways of skinning a cat but I'd agree that Digital is approaching Vinyl now, even for the poorer of us as Technology improves.
    The main reason people have abandoned vinyl is not digital technology, but the convenience of portability. That exodus started happening in the 1970s (I bought my first walkman in 1979).

    As in everything else, ignorance is bliss. If you don't know any better, you may work diligently on building your state-of-the-art digital sound system. You may end up mighty pleased with how it sounds, and your friends may also get blown away by your system.

    However, all it takes is a single exposure to a really good record playing system to dispel the dogmatic haze that's building around the digital sound reproduction kingdom. Listeners with sensitive, even average ears, will immediately notice that something is fundamentally different with analog playback. And most people will be forced to conclude that state-of-the-art vinyl is incredibly seductive.
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 99,005
    I'm Grant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    The main reason people have abandoned vinyl is not digital technology, but the convenience of portability. That exodus started happening in the 1970s (I bought my first walkman in 1979).

    As in everything else, ignorance is bliss. If you don't know any better, you may work diligently on building your state-of-the-art digital sound system. You may end up mighty pleased with how it sounds, and your friends may also get blown away by your system.

    However, all it takes is a single exposure to a really good record playing system to dispel the dogmatic haze that's building around the digital sound reproduction kingdom. Listeners with sensitive, even average ears, will immediately notice that something is fundamentally different with analog playback. And most people will be forced to conclude that state-of-the-art vinyl is incredibly seductive.
    Dont think i am ignorant of the sonic abilities of vinyl.
    Regards,
    Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -

    Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?

    “Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".

    “You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”

    "You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”

    “There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”


    ***SMILE, BE HAPPY***

  5. #5
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magiccarpetride View Post
    However, all it takes is a single exposure to a really good record playing system to dispel the dogmatic haze that's building around the digital sound reproduction kingdom. Listeners with sensitive, even average ears, will immediately notice that something is fundamentally different with analog playback. And most people will be forced to conclude that state-of-the-art vinyl is incredibly seductive.
    I would agree 100% with that, but coupled with the fact that most will never have heard what digital sound is *truly* capable of [haven't owned equipment able to reveal its full potential], and so in some ways limits their ability to judge just how much better vinyl is in comparison.

    Trust me, that last bit is crucial to the whole concept of 'digital audio vs. vinyl'

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I would agree 100% with that, but coupled with the fact that most will never have heard what digital sound is *truly* capable of [haven't owned equipment able to reveal its full potential], and so in some ways limits their ability to judge just how much better vinyl is in comparison.

    Trust me, that last bit is crucial to the whole concept of 'digital audio vs. vinyl'

    Marco.
    Are you referring to the 'excellent digital reproduction only underlines the digital nature of the signal'?
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Not quite sure what you mean, sorry...

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 2,166
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    http://www.theabsolutesound.com/arti...rs-new-server/

    I must admit I agree with most of this article as I think it honestly compares the merits of both. I feel the final conclusion to be true but I am not so stuck in the vinyl camp as I was as I have heard a system that made me feel there could be room for digital in my life if only I had the cash.

    From what I have heard the lines between excellent analog and state of the art digital are blurred even more.
    I would agree that digital can approximate the sound quality of vinyl, but under one proviso: that we're comparing digital playback to the LP that hasn't been properly washed and vacuumed. But as soon as the LP gets properly cleaned, forget it!
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,772
    I'm Martin.

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    The problem with the article is that the author clearly does not have a even a basic understanding of how digital audio works. So whilst his observations may be true his conclusion as to the reason for those observations is wildly incorrect.

    As one of the commentators on the article points out:

    One side note, your argument that "you simply cannot “sample” the continuous-time sound of instruments or vocalists, turn it into discrete-time numbers, and then turn those discrete-time numbers back into instruments or vocalists without losing some of the very continuousness of presentation" is false. It's really, really easy to prove this with some basic math and an oscilloscope
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Warrington

    Posts: 3,451
    I'm Neil.

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    The real revelation for me was converting to a media server and Halide Bridge, which offers me an incredibly low 10ps jitter with my 44.1kHz files. CD transports tend to be 100s of ps or even ns levels of jitter. My DAC uses no reclocking, just a PLL, so responds well to low jitter. Let's just say my Audial Model S / Halide Bridge comfortably outperforms my vinyl setup in every way except for when the vinyl mastering is better, which it often can be.

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
    Mana Acoustics Racks / Bright Star IsoNodes Decoupling >> Allo DigiOne Player >> Pedja Rogic's Audial Model S DAC + Pioneer PL-71 turntable / Vista Audio phono-1 mk II / Denon PCL-5 headshell / Reson Reca >> LFD DLS >> LFD PA2M (SE) >> Royd RR3s.

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