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Thread: Valve power - feel the force!

  1. #1
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Thumbs up Valve power - feel the force!

    I thought that I'd give my valve amplifier combo a proper work-out for the first time to see if this 'shitty little 60W Yaqin amp' from China (modified by our resident friend and forum moderator Anthony Matthews of Tube Distinctions) could hack it with some hardcore dance music at serious levels

    Needless to say I shouldn't have worried. I've just emerged from my darkened room in a state of shock, sweating, and shaking my head in disbelief at the sheer scale, physical impact and intensity of the sound

    I had previously slipped 'Elements of Life' from Tiesto into the Sony's slick transport mechanism, turned up the Croft to just over half volume, and pressed play...

    Track 6 was chosen and 'Sweet Things' majestically flooded into the room. I was greeted by wall-to-wall synthesised beats which shook the floor and literally pinned me to my seat. I felt a rush of adrenaline as I watched the Spendor’s 12” bass drivers pumping in and out with a piston-like precision, moving serious amounts of air, as they pressurised the room with the pounding bass-line.

    The track's low frequencies were delivered with massive visceral impact such that it felt as if Joe Calzaghe had just delivered a fearsome punch to my chest, as the haunting voice of the (unknown) guest female vocalist caressed my ears with an angelic sensuality and combined with the pounding bass-line to surround me in a magical dreamlike and widescreen soundscape. This was truly amazing: I have never heard dance music reproduced before with such intense fun factor from my (excellent as they are) solid-state 200W ECS monoblocks.

    I sat transfixed and in awe as I wondered how the sheer scale of the sound which I was experiencing was possible from a mere 60W of push-pull valve power. How can this be right, I thought, aren’t valves supposed to sound soft and ‘mushy’? However I didn’t get much time to dwell on that thought as ‘Sweet Things’ faded out and the gentle trance-like intro to ‘Bright Morningstar’ floated somewhat spookily into the room seemingly contained within its own acoustic space whilst cocooned in a surreal inky blackness. A feeling of relaxed tranquillity pervaded over me but no sooner was I drifting off into a sleepy state of relaxation than I was rudely awakened by a bomb-like explosion of near-nuclear intensity as the bass-line signalling the arrival of the business end of the track shook the room, pummelling my ears.

    The scary thing was there was simply no sense of strain whatsoever – in fact there was a sense of almost unlimited headroom, as I cranked up the volume another couple of notches to take the Croft to three-quarter volume, which pressurised the room further creating a sound of such depth and power that it made me feel quite queasy: I simply basked in the atmospheric intensity of the music. It was abundantly clear that my ears would give in long before the Yaqin and Spendors would, so fearful for my hearing I played it safe, turned down the volume, and then proceeded to enjoy the remainder of the album at more normal listening levels. But nothing could remove the grin I was wearing from ear to ear after partaking in such an enlightening musical experience.

    So, in terms of bass, what of solid-state's renowned control and extension? Pah! Valve power rules!!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #2
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

    Posts: 6,358
    I'm InSpace.

    Default

    Oh no......

    I have actually vomited!


    I think you must be looking for a job Marco!!!!!!!


    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Central England

    Posts: 2,932

    Default

    It's all in the timing Marco (and lack of distortion) .. but then I should resist these urges to be so reductionistic. We can leave that to the pseudo-objectivists and their crappy yet 'correct and accurate' "hi-fi."

  4. #4
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Steve, I think it's the sheer amount of electrical current that valves have in reserve which maximises transient attack and makes them able to resolve the deepest of bass lines with such lack of strain and effortless finesse

    Mike, that piece was written 'à la Roy Gregory' with a soupçon of extra flimflam.

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #5
    Join Date: Apr 2008

    Location: Chester

    Posts: 429

    Default

    I sat transfixed and in awe as I wondered how the sheer scale of the sound which I was experiencing was possible from a mere 60W of push-pull valve power.
    Valve watts are widely regarded as being subjectively more powerful than the equivalent ss amps. So your "mere 60 watts" is probably at least as capable as a 120 watt solid state version.

    60 watts would be regarded as being huge in many tube amp circles. Many of us are used to dealing with 2 - 10 watts.

    My first tube amp was an upgraded Leak ST20. It sounded warm and pleasant, but the bass was vague and unimpressive. Because i had nothing to compare it with, i assumed this was a typical valve sound and returned to solid state for years after.
    Modern amps can be tons better, but it took me a long time to realise it.

  6. #6
    Join Date: May 2008

    Posts: 191

    Default

    I'm wary of any blanket statements on the lines that 'valves beat solid-state' or 'vinyl beats CD'. There are good and bad examples of valve amps and solid state amps. But as the review was tongue-in-cheek I'll let you off with a caution this time.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: North East UK

    Posts: 6,358
    I'm InSpace.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Mike, that piece was written 'à la Roy Gregory' with a soupçon of extra flimflam.

    Marco.
    No sh*t!....
    Shian7
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Kudakutemo
    kudakutemo

    ari mizu-no tsuki

    Though it be be broken -
    broken again - still it's there:
    the moon on the water.

    - Choshu.

  8. #8
    Join Date: May 2008

    Posts: 191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Steve, I think it's the sheer amount of electrical current that valves have in reserve which maximises transient attack and makes them able to resolve the deepest of bass lines with such lack of strain and effortless finesse

    Mike, that piece was written 'à la Roy Gregory' with a soupçon of extra flimflam.
    Nonsense. There was nothing in the piece along the lines of 'at £25,000, this is something of a bargain'. And no references to mountain bikes either.

  9. #9
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    I'm wary of any blanket statements on the lines that 'valves beat solid-state' or 'vinyl beats CD'.
    There were no blanket statements made, Iain - just a personal account of my experiences with one particular valve amp and a pair of solid-state power amps in my system. You can only tell it as you hear it

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #10
    Join Date: May 2008

    Posts: 191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    There are no blanket statements here, Iain - just a personal account of my experiences with one particular valve amp and a pair of solid-state power amps in my system. You can only tell it as you hear it!

    Marco.
    'Valve power rules' sounds fairly blanket to me. (I should add that I use a valve power amp myself!)

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