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Thread: VPI Turntables?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

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    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul-H View Post
    Why does everyone still think a higher price equals better quality.

    Do the math it cant, you cannot improve on the sound of the original, the Vinyl played on it how can a 100 grand turntable do anything better than a 10 grand turntable, the simple truth of the matter that no one wants to admit to even though there is a mountain of evidence is that a quite low cost system will attain 99% of the original sound off the vinyl once you spend a grand on a turntable you have probably maxed out what a turntable/Arm/Cartridge combination can extract from vinyl, spending any more is pointless, but those who do will never admit to that will they, if you have attained perfection how can spending money give better than perfection.

    Mod note. Edited dont use that term again or you will get a holiday. Youve been warned already
    A record deck is a piece of mechanical engineering and good mechanical engineering is not cheap. Your ultimate deck for 1000 breaks down as: VAT 200, dealer margin 200 Distributer margin 250 manufacturer margin 250 cost of parts and build 100

    A 1000 deck is nothing like the best possible.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  2. #22
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

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    I'm Shaun.

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    I seriously beg to differ as when I worked in retail the dealer cost for a 1k turntable was 500 plus VAT. That makes their margin quite a bit more than 200 quid.

    I really do love the look of the older VPI decks. That Scoutmaster II to me was a thing of real beauty and as Martin has already said, turntables are a serious piece of engineering. Maybe the other guy still uses a BSR deck...?
    "For when we got bored we'd have a World war, happy but poor"

  3. #23
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 572
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Your ultimate deck for 1000 breaks down as: VAT 200, dealer margin 200 Distributer margin 250 manufacturer margin 250 cost of parts and build 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    I seriously beg to differ as when I worked in retail the dealer cost for a 1k turntable was 500 plus VAT. That makes their margin quite a bit more than 200 quid.
    Yes, the dealer's gross profit on a 1000 item is about 330 normally. Bear in mind though that a dealer on the high street has some serious overheads.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 2,962
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intenso View Post
    Any love for VPI here?

    I'm smitten with the looks of the new Prime which is currently out of my price range for at least a couple of years until their 2nd hand value drops.

    The Scouts also look really nice but I know better than to buy audio gear based on looks alone.

    Can anyone comment how they sound, against for example the Notts Analogue Hyperspace TT?

    I just can't get beyond how muscular they look! Like the Pit Bull of the TT world...

    Cheers
    Hi Anthony, sorry i did not answer your questions first.

    Any VPI turntable from the Scout upwards are definitely work considering. I have the Scout 1.1 which is a very substantially built turntable weighing in at around 11KG. The ethos with VPI turntables is high mass to negate acoustic vibration which is a similar approach to the Notts Analogue. I looked at the NA turntables and indeed it was my first choice but the VPI are better engineered, especially the tonearm and in particular their Unipivot tonearms. These have a quick release armwand so different cartridge can be swapped very easily although you would have to buy another armwand. Again the engineering is first class with typical American substantial build quality.

    The Scout runs totally silent and produces inky black backgrounds with vinyl and a wide deep soundstage with pinpoint imaging. Although belter turntables can be lighter and more airy sounding than DD the VPI does dig deep in the bass. I have heard the VPI Prime and it has an even lower noise floor than the Scout, heaven knows what their top models sound like! If I were to buy again i would go for the Prime, it would be the last TT you would ever need although the Scout is a much more reasonable price. Yes these TT are expensive but the quality is there and they are truly fabulous sounding, they are shipped from New Jersey so not a cheap import. If I had 10,000 I would buy their Avenger TT but to be honest I believe the Scout and prime give you 80% at a fraction of the cost, law of diminishing returns.

    I see you are in Bristol Anthony so if you want to hear what a VPI Scout sounds like you are welcome to pop up to mine - only 1.5 hours away. A few folk on this site have heard mine and I would say they were not disappointed.

    Seeing one and using one in the flesh is even more impressive than any of the photos you may have seen - yes they are a bit of a Pit Bull!

    PS The Notts A Hyperspace is also a great TT but I was not engaged with the sound like the VPI.
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 2,962
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    I own a used Scout. A very nice 'table and the nicest I've ever owned. I have never used a Nottingham, so I can't compare, but it does many things very well. The arm is of good quality, and the reason the wire sticks out the top, is because it is interchangeable. If you own more than one arm, you can mount different cartridges on each, and pick the arm right up, unplug it, and place the next one on. Although the extra arms are expensive to say the least, it's the reason for the design. Great speed stability, rock solid performance, super quiet, silent passages are just jet black. The Scout 1 and 1.1 have an acrylic platter, and the 2 has an aluminum platter. They claim the new aluminum platter is better, but I've heard it was just cheaper to manufacture than the acrylic. Mine has the acrylic platter and I love it. I paid less than half price used. And it may be the last table I will ever own?

    As for VPI the company, I am not thrilled with. I sent my 16.5 RCM in to be repaired and never saw it again! Most disappointing. Still makes me angry to think about that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Over here Russell the Scout 1.1 has a steel platter not acrylic and mine had the Unipivot tonearm not the Gimball bearing tonearm. I use the 16.5 RCM and find it effective but noisy. Built like a tank but not in your case? i suppose tanks can go wrong
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  6. #26
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 16,875
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Yes, the dealer's gross profit on a 1000 item is about 330 normally. Bear in mind though that a dealer on the high street has some serious overheads.
    Yes I played it down a bit because otherwise dealers come on and complain that they are not making anything like that

    I am not insinuating any rip-off just pointing out that the retail cost of any hi-fi component will be 10 to 20 times more than the cost of parts and build. With a turntable especially it will show up any cost cutting in the parts that matter since quality mechanical engineering is not cheap and there are no short-cuts.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  7. #27
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

    Posts: 3,374
    I'm Shaun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    Yes, the dealer's gross profit on a 1000 item is about 330 normally. Bear in mind though that a dealer on the high street has some serious overheads.
    Oh yes, I agree entirely. Having the usual costs involved in running a shop is highly prohibitive.
    "For when we got bored we'd have a World war, happy but poor"

  8. #28
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 2,962
    I'm James.

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    The more expensive the item the less they have to sell. I know one dealer who only had to sell 1 pair of .... Speakers a year to make his profit!
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

  9. #29
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

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    I'm Shaun.

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    I may be so wrong here but wouldn't say a tonearm come under micro engineering...? This must surely be aircraft grade stuff and so must surely have an appropriate cost...? As for Nottingham Analogue turntables, they are hugely over engineered but the cheaper ones like mine are largely MDF. There can't be much of a cost incurred in using the same bearing for all and a huge slab of MDF...? I think that is why my turntable was so improved by fitting a Funk Firm Achromat. It has isolated out some of that MDF.
    "For when we got bored we'd have a World war, happy but poor"

  10. #30
    Join Date: Jan 2013

    Location: Birmingham

    Posts: 2,962
    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    I may be so wrong here but wouldn't say a tonearm come under micro engineering...? This must surely be aircraft grade stuff and so must surely have an appropriate cost...? As for Nottingham Analogue turntables, they are hugely over engineered but the cheaper ones like mine are largely MDF. There can't be much of a cost incurred in using the same bearing for all and a huge slab of MDF...? I think that is why my turntable was so improved by fitting a Funk Firm Achromat. It has isolated out some of that MDF.
    Mine is MDF Shaun but with a huge slab of steel bolted to it!
    VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T Tonearm / 2M Black /Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Spendor SP2

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