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Thread: td 124 issues

  1. #1
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default td 124 issues

    Calling td124 users

    I have a particularly noisy 124.
    These are the 2 124 mk II s i have:
    124/graham1.5/V15/ light hollow plinth (tt1) is not totally quiet but i find it acceptable. It has mushrooms.
    124/3012 II - fully serviced / DL103R heavy plinth (tt2) also on mushrooms currently, is a noisy rumbler

    Both have had their motors serviced by my pal Lee using parts from Mirko Djor...
    both have new belts
    tt1 has a new idler from Mirko (i think) that looks identical to the original.
    tt2 has the O ring idler from AudioSilente ( but i have put in the better of the 2 old ones, and rumble may be worse than with the O ring)

    tt1 has pretty standard looking new motor grommets.
    tt2 has had 3 sets of motor grommets , now with the Hanse coil springs but sadly this has not dramatically reduced the rumble.

    Some of you prefer light hollow ortofon style plinths, some of u prefer solid heavier ones.
    Mushrooms are used by some of u while some would bolt the chassis tight to the plinth.
    Is there a concensus ? perhaps mushrooms for hollow plinths, no mushrooms and tight fit for solid plinths?
    My problem is that tt2, aside from its rumble is also badly affected by resonance - tapping the plinth and armboard while the stylus is at the end of the vinyl produces an horrid thud.
    tt1 (sitting beside it on the same rack) is much less sensitive.
    Both my plinths are made locally. in fact the heavy plinth on which tt2 sits is a diy job using 3 slabs of ikea kitchen top of beach ie 3x 4 cm slabs glued.
    The lovely plinths made by StereoLab, Schopper or Jim Thompson that some of you have described on earlier 124 threads are for too expensive for me out here in asia esp when the shipping is considered.

    I would also value your opinions on the influence of the 6 platter pads arranged in a circle on the top of the bottom platter.
    These pads are so hard on my 50 yr old 124s they re virtually petrified rubber.
    I imagine they may play a crucial role in decoupling the 2 platters and may therefore influence the transmission of noise from the motor thru belt/idler/ bottom platter to the top platter and to the vinyl onto which the stulus is sitting.
    I have ordered a couple of sets of silicone rubber pads from an eBayer in the US ( actually i bought all 3 remaining sets, so i cant show the link now!) in my desperate attempt to sort out these issues.
    Value your comments . Many thanks.
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  2. #2
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: Derbyshire

    Posts: 542
    I'm mark.

    Default

    TonyL (PFM owner) had a long saga of noisy 124, he finally sorted it with the correct sized belt. I'd start there?

    I got a selection for mine on his recommendation, although (embarrassed) my 124 is collecting dust.

    There's a US site (can't remember off hand) which does a large variety, decent prices and quality.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

    Posts: 4,481
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    There is much talk about the TD124 these days, but I don't hear much talk about the Papst motor conversion. I bought the conversion kit from Metrosound, probably about 1976. I still have the original motor.

    https://flic.kr/p/7HCAo9

    https://flic.kr/p/7HCAs9

    https://flic.kr/p/7HCAyq

    https://flic.kr/p/7HCAvC
    Spendorman

  4. #4
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Dublin

    Posts: 232
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    Have you tried a bit of taulk on the belt. Works wonders on my 124 every 6 months or so.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Source: Thorens TD124 Rega RB300, Sumiko bluepoint No2., Cambridge Audio D500 Special Edition CDP, Squeeze box Touch, PC with Trends Audio USB Audio DAC UD-10 Amplification: Croft Micro 25 basic pre, Leak Stereo 20, Trends Audio Class T TA-10, Fisher X100-A Speakers:Impulse H6 Interconnects: Handmade silver and TNT audio CAT5 speaker cables

  5. #5
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default

    Shuck sorry to bring up so many issues in 1 thread !
    Bloody frustrating to still have these issues while I ve been improving the 3012 with new wiring, bearings, headshell and mpingo spacer on Marco's advice to squeeze out the very best out of the DL103R

    Simon did u mean talcum powder ?

    I have a plan. Will sort out plinth first to sort out resonances . Make a new one . experiment with mushroom or no mushroom.

    Re rumble : I have a new belt to try which is the very oneIs recommended by Tony of pfm

    If that does not work to reduce rumble i will pack the bloody motor to Jim Campbell in the US

    Is the Papst quieter Alex ?

    and thank you all
    Last edited by drSM; 09-05-2017 at 02:58.
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  6. #6
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Norwich

    Posts: 2,814
    I'm Hugo.

    Default

    In my experience, much of the noise and 'rumble' with the TD-124 comes from the idler wheel/stepped pulley interface. That noise is mechanically and faithfully transmitted through the chassis and to the armboard. Assuming that the idler wheel is a good one with a new sintered bronze bush, the main culprit is probably worn stepped pulley bushes. It's surprising how such little things can make such a racket. These bushes are a standard metric size and easily obtainable online, but a bit of very careful reaming is usually required to provide a good fit with the stepped pulley spindle.

    How to diagnose where the noise is coming from? Take the platter off and press an ear or a stethoscope onto the armboard while engaging the speed control lever. With the motor running, move the idler wheel swing arm away from the stepped pulley so that you can hear the noise when it's just the motor and stepped pulley running. If there is a lot of noise without the idler engaged, then it probably comes from the motor. Next, engage the idler wheel with the stepped pulley - if there's a massive increase in transmitted noise, then first change the idler wheel to see if anything changes, and if not, look to replace the stepped pulley bushes. In the TD-124 Mk2 there should be a little hard plastic thrust pad that the stepped pulley spindle runs on - it's quite easy to lose!

    Regarding plinths, Jim Campbell once told me that with a heavy plinth, it's best to bolt the deck down firmly, without mushrooms. I chose to ignore his advice and bought a set of expensive gel mushrooms, but he was 100% correct and I learnt my lesson. An idler deck like the TD-124 needs a mass 'sink' where vibrations can be drained away, and rubber mushrooms just mean that noise generated within the deck has nowhere to go.

    It is definitely worth replacing hardened rubber platter pads. Also, my TD-124 benefits from regular cleaning off rubber belt gunge from the motor pulley and stepped pulley edges, followed by a light application of talc on the belt (as already mentioned above).

    I hope that helps. There's a very good Facebook group "Thorens TD-124 Friends" at https://www.facebook.com/groups/324351847746115/ and you'll get good advice there, particularly from Jaap Pees.

  7. #7
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: Middlesex, UK

    Posts: 4,481
    I'm Alex.

    Default

    "Is the Papst quieter Alex ?"

    Hi Shahrin

    Yes, I think it is, but the original motor can be quiet enough, as Hugo says "much of the noise and 'rumble' with the TD-124 comes from the idler wheel/stepped pulley interface." I would investigate as suggested by Hugo.
    Spendorman

  8. #8
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: Dublin

    Posts: 232
    I'm Simon.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drSM View Post

    Simon did u mean talcum powder ?
    Yes that's exactly what I meant.

    Looks enough have some excellent advice below and I will try the recommendations myself as I still have a tiny bit of noise from my deck if you listen closely when it's running.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Source: Thorens TD124 Rega RB300, Sumiko bluepoint No2., Cambridge Audio D500 Special Edition CDP, Squeeze box Touch, PC with Trends Audio USB Audio DAC UD-10 Amplification: Croft Micro 25 basic pre, Leak Stereo 20, Trends Audio Class T TA-10, Fisher X100-A Speakers:Impulse H6 Interconnects: Handmade silver and TNT audio CAT5 speaker cables

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default

    Indeed Simon
    Few gems there Hugo. Big Thanks
    I am a dr but as a radiologist have long ditched the stethoscope so i had to figure out a way to get ear on chassis without damaging anything (arm/stylus and my own neck!) while maintaing the dexterity to engage and disengage the idler . Not so easy.
    I left that there was a low level of noise without the idler and this was accentuated somewhat by engaing the idler. Significantly ? probably.
    I removed idler and the subsequently the stepped pulley and inspected them.
    Seemed ok so i have put it all together .
    The mushrooms have been removed and the plinth sits on a Soundstyle rack on small silicone pads .
    Dare I say it but what i ve been calling rumble has diminished and what i felt was resonance has diminished too.
    Basically it sounds nicer.
    More twiddling to do and i have to understand that stepped pulley and its bushes.
    There is the talc trick to try
    I feel that the motor which was serviced (together with the motor of my quieter 124) spins nicely and quietly - on turning off the power (without the belt) it spins a long time before coming to a stop.

    So the big take home here - heavy plinth, no mushrooms.
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

  10. #10
    Join Date: Oct 2015

    Location: KL, Malaysia

    Posts: 258
    I'm shahrin.

    Default Naked 124 tt1

    Let me indulge u folks
    This is tt1 (the quieter one) with platter off
    See stethoscope end on middle of armboard
    Careful listening on turning on the deck, and idler engages and spins.
    Finger gently disengages idler (its spring loaded).
    Noise clearly worse when idler engages and spins.
    Verdict : Its the idler !
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Thorens td124 mk2 / Bokrand AB309/ 103r
    SLAT L75 / Jelco 850S / AT VM740ML
    Marantz CD63 / Bluesound / Musical Paradise 701 II/ ESP 500Hz eXO / PL Prologue 4 and Nord 1UP amps / JK Wynn semiactive NS1000 upgrade
    /ESP 700 Hz eXO / JBL 4333 components

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