Jelco SA750D with Denon DL103 - Alternative headshell recommendations

[Barry]

Strongly suggest you use Shure SC35C cartridges ... and, yes, they are 'hi-fi'.
The Denon isn't designed for the job ... everytime you trash a cantilever/suspension, it'll be two hundred quid to replace. The replaceable stylus unit for the Shure is about one-tenth of that (£20ish)

I agree, you are very likely to distroy the cantilever of the Denon, by backtracking.

The Shure SC35C sounds more suitable. Though broadcast record cueing engineers would place the stylus on the record a little before the point where they wanted to play, then using headphones they would rotate the platter by hand, clockwise, until they just heard the start of the track. They would then lift the arm and move the record back a 'smidgen' (technical term that) and lower the arm. Since all broadcast standard TTs were equipped with an 'instant start' facility the cueing was very effective.

[shire]

I used a 103r successfully with the 750d albeit the aluminium body version,(this is supposed to give the mass needed to the standard jelco headshell) not an expert in these technical matters, needed to buy the heavier counterweight to balance.
The cantilever is now broken,always seemed a delicate affair.

[neilmacey]

Thank you for the informed responses. Interesting suggestion the Shure SC35C, i've actually got one minus stylus in my box somewhere, will order a new one and check it out.

Regarding the unsuitability of the DL103 for its intended use and possible damage - The two delicate areas mentioned are the cantilever and suspension. I understand the function of both. Can someone clarify exactly what it is about either that makes them unsuitable for this purpose? I'm not doubting that it may be true, its just that i don't know why. A hifi person would simply never backcue a record by winding it with their hand but i don't remember seeing instructions such as 'do not play record backwards with this cartridge' on any that i've ever bought

I personally use a Goldring 1012GX on my Technics at home and never backcue with it because i've seen and can feel the stress the cantilever going through on the odd occasion i've tried to wind a record backwards to cue it up for recording. I'd have thought, without firsthand experience, that given the Denon's 2.7g recommended VTF compared to the 1.7g of the Goldring that the cantilever itself would be stiffer and therefore more robust?

Regarding suspension - for my information - is the suspension of a cartridge designed in such a way that any reverse forces applied to it are going to damage it somehow or dislodge the cantilever from its intended position or in what way would it be damaged?

i'd already said to the boss that he might end up buying a pair of these every week and he wasn't at all bothered if thats what it cost to achieve a superior sound, its just an overhead was his attitude. However if a cheaper and just as effective solution was available then i'm sure he wouldn't have a problem with that.

So with that in mind and money aside, what would you prefer to listen to? Shure SC35C or Denon DL103?

[Barry]

With the Shure SC35C, the stylus is detachable from the cartridge body, so should the stylus become damaged it can be easily replaced with a new one. With the Denon 103, being a moving coil design, the stylus/cantilever is integral with the cartridge body. So if you want to use a Denon, for DJ duties you need to have several separate cartridges each mounted in their own headshell, so one can be substituted for a damaged one.

I think you would, however, be better off using one of the Ortofon Concord series of cartridges that have been designed to withstand the rigors of DJ use, and yet have good SQ.

[blackstar]

Whether or not the cartridge is low compliance, the suspension is stiff etc. if you back cue with a Denon or most other cartridges, I'd say you are heading down the boulevard of broken dreams.

[ptstucky]

Hi Neil,

While I have heard a few DJs say they've used the 103, all were very explicit that it takes a particular light hand when back queuing. I have tried with my own 103r, and while I can confirm that it will track, it made my stomach turn a couple times. My feeling is that most DJs - regardless of how aware they are before a set of the more delicate cantilevers- will revert to a technique they use with "DJ carts" and damage the cantilever. They 103 sounds terrific, but it is a risk to use them in a club setting.

I have heard of the Decca DJ carts mentioned above, but have not heard anyone with experience using them. They are quite expensive, if I recall, but may be worth further investigation, as I am sure they sound fantastic.
I would recommend you look at Grado DJ200i carts, as well. I am currently using these in my home setup for mixing sessions, and they have a wonderful lower midrange "Grado" signature sound. They track amazingly well and rarely skip during back queuing if properly set up. The biggest complaint people seem to have is hum can appear in the inner grooves due to emi from the 1200s transformers; that said, if these decks are heavily modded, as you suggest, they really should already be using an external PSU, which eliminates this problem.

Good luck!

Paul


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[CageyH]

The other thing to look at is if you have the Graham Slee Refelx M or Reflex C.
If you have the Reflax M, a Denon 103 is going to be very quiet. You will need additional equipment such as a head amp or step up transformer to get the same output as a moving magnet cartridge such as the Shure SC35C mentioned earlier.

[petrat]

I think you would, however, be better off using one of the Ortofon Concord series of cartridges that have been designed to withstand the rigors of DJ use, and yet have good SQ.

The 35C has a cantilever like a girder, and is promoted by Shure (and sold in the thousands) as a DJ cartridge. It also sounds really good when tracked at at the recommended 4-5 grams (dance-proof!). I regularly use one on my hifi system, and it isn't at all humbled by the company it's keeping

I also have a Denon 103R, and the construction of it really isn't sturdy enough for any sort of DJ use imo ... even with care, I doubt it would last any time at all. In poor lighting, it'd also be less easy to cue than the 35C, which has a highlight on the stylus for easy visibility.

[neilmacey]

Thank you Paul and petrat. The opinion of someone with first hand experience is valued. My feeling is that in this environment the cantilever would get broken by clumsily dropping it on the edge of the spinning platter well before it broke from being simply wound backwards. Going down the MM route instead of MC makes everything cheaper and simpler i agree. I found this glowing review from an astonished audiophile reviewer which was encouraging

http://www.stereophile.com/content/g...-3-shure-sc35c

N35X and SSc35c replacement styli are ordered and i will report back. I'll see if i can get the boss to buy a Grado 220i for side by side evaluation. I'd read a few negative comments about the Grado's and backcueing but i was suspicious that they may just not have been set up correctly as most DJ's don't have a clue or really care about these things. The MK2s will have external PSUs so the inner groove hum won't be a problem

Thanks for taking the time to comment