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Thread: Why are we falling for the great vinyl scam?

  1. #21
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: N E Kent

    Posts: 51,624
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    nothing like as much money in TV as there was.
    I'll bear that in mind when I renew my more expensive licence .
    It is impossible for anything digital to sound analogue, because it isn't analogue!

  2. #22
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

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    Anyone who wants to get famous in the music business has to work their butts off. One cannot just wrote a song every now and then, and be famous. You've got to play! Be seen! Collect a following, and slowly start to slip your original music in with the cover songs, and once you reach a point that you are making enough that you can quit your day job, you are still a long way from the top. Some guys I know had a band 10 years ago, the most popular local band in my area, maybe ever. They had a contract with Jim Beam! To post pictures of their liquor bottles on either side of the stage, paid them $500 a gig to do this! They played for $1500 a show! And had not a single original song of their own. They did, but never played them out. They could play a corn field and 400 people would show up. After about 5 years of this, they gave it up, it was just too much work for the money. By the time they paid their agent, the sound man, light man, promoter, etc. and divided the money up amongst themselves, and paid taxes and drugs and alcohol, it just wasn't worth the effort, and they had to retreat to save their families and preserve their sanity. And they never even came close to producing a record.

    The old days when a hot young band would get noticed by a record producer and he would cut them a check on the spot. And they would go on to make millions. That happens very little anymore. Now days most stars were produced by the agency. Disney takes a young face and buys them songs to sing, and uses processors to give them that unique voice, and choreographers to teach them to dance, etc. they travel the world and make hundreds of millions! And once they are too old, they discover they never had any talent in the first place. And the company drops them for the next Fresh face. Very few pop stars even write their own music anymore. Of course there are exceptions. But it certainly isn't like the old days. I'll be stuck in the 70's for the rest of my days.


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  3. #23
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Auckland, New Zealand.

    Posts: 58
    I'm Justin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Anyone who wants to get famous in the music business has to work their butts off. One cannot just wrote a song every now and then, and be famous. You've got to play! Be seen! Collect a following, and slowly start to slip your original music in with the cover songs, and once you reach a point that you are making enough that you can quit your day job, you are still a long way from the top. Some guys I know had a band 10 years ago, the most popular local band in my area, maybe ever. They had a contract with Jim Beam! To post pictures of their liquor bottles on either side of the stage, paid them $500 a gig to do this! They played for $1500 a show! And had not a single original song of their own. They did, but never played them out. They could play a corn field and 400 people would show up. After about 5 years of this, they gave it up, it was just too much work for the money. By the time they paid their agent, the sound man, light man, promoter, etc. and divided the money up amongst themselves, and paid taxes and drugs and alcohol, it just wasn't worth the effort, and they had to retreat to save their families and preserve their sanity. And they never even came close to producing a record.

    The old days when a hot young band would get noticed by a record producer and he would cut them a check on the spot. And they would go on to make millions. That happens very little anymore. Now days most stars were produced by the agency. Disney takes a young face and buys them songs to sing, and uses processors to give them that unique voice, and choreographers to teach them to dance, etc. they travel the world and make hundreds of millions! And once they are too old, they discover they never had any talent in the first place. And the company drops them for the next Fresh face. Very few pop stars even write their own music anymore. Of course there are exceptions. But it certainly isn't like the old days. I'll be stuck in the 70's for the rest of my days.


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    This.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2016

    Location: Gravesend and France

    Posts: 1,498
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alphaGT View Post
    Anyone who wants to get famous in the music business has to work their butts off. One cannot just wrote a song every now and then, and be famous. You've got to play! Be seen! Collect a following, and slowly start to slip your original music in with the cover songs, and once you reach a point that you are making enough that you can quit your day job, you are still a long way from the top. Some guys I know had a band 10 years ago, the most popular local band in my area, maybe ever. They had a contract with Jim Beam! To post pictures of their liquor bottles on either side of the stage, paid them $500 a gig to do this! They played for $1500 a show! And had not a single original song of their own. They did, but never played them out. They could play a corn field and 400 people would show up. After about 5 years of this, they gave it up, it was just too much work for the money. By the time they paid their agent, the sound man, light man, promoter, etc. and divided the money up amongst themselves, and paid taxes and drugs and alcohol, it just wasn't worth the effort, and they had to retreat to save their families and preserve their sanity. And they never even came close to producing a record.

    The old days when a hot young band would get noticed by a record producer and he would cut them a check on the spot. And they would go on to make millions. That happens very little anymore. Now days most stars were produced by the agency. Disney takes a young face and buys them songs to sing, and uses processors to give them that unique voice, and choreographers to teach them to dance, etc. they travel the world and make hundreds of millions! And once they are too old, they discover they never had any talent in the first place. And the company drops them for the next Fresh face. Very few pop stars even write their own music anymore. Of course there are exceptions. But it certainly isn't like the old days. I'll be stuck in the 70's for the rest of my days.


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    unique voices? They all sound the same after spending time with voice coaches.
    Your comment about drugs and alcohol, to some extent, is not amusing in the slightest.
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  5. #25
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    You've pretty well summed up the situation AlphaGT, there is seemingly no original thinking, poetic writing, beautiful melody or harmony now; nothing 'grabs me' the way it used to.

    I detect very little passionate expression of a deeply felt personal view on something in what I hear, and any tension in the performance is more to do I imagine with the artist's inner desires to 'make it', or the difficulty in reaching a note.

    The predominance of women with perfect teeth, eyebrows and tits is noticeable, as is the usual Mariah Carey style of singing which emphasises vocal dexterity to the point of absurdity.

    In the 70s the originating singer-songwriters had something to say, and did so with only relatively minor alteration of ' the message' from the people in charge. My collection is full of it.

    The arrival of the corporate control, notably with Stock Aitken and Waterman, marked a change in which they were now the driving force, producing reactionary socially acceptable 'bubble gum' and using pretty people to perform it.

    Now it is Simon Cowell and others running it, and this reflects the increase of corporate power in the world in general IMO. Anyone not controlled in and by a dumbed down world is ignored, and in a democracy, the principles of which seem now to apply to everything because of the use of stats, the lone voices of truth can be easily ignored, and even ridiculed by those who consume the pap.

    Twelve years ago when purchasing a new MOTU digital interface at the Guitar and Amp shop, the guy there said that the most bought music by 18 year olds was then DSOTM. Compare the creativity in that album with what is done now in an age of samplers and synthesisers, and with Autotune. This change is a tragic loss and a cloning of people; a cultural cess pit. (Now, er, my spelling and punctuation?)

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulf-2007 View Post
    unique voices? They all sound the same after spending time with voice coaches.
    Your comment about drugs and alcohol, to some extent, is not amusing in the slightest.
    My comment concerning drugs and alcohol wasn't meant to be amusing, only honest. The physical cost, along with mental cost, caused stress within the band, and was causing great stress at home. Trying to hold down a job at the factory and play 3 gigs a week lead to some real abuses and was eating up what profits the band was making. Probably one of the main reasons they broke up and stopped gigging. My friend who was a guitarist used his profits to build a nice recording studio, but several of the others had nothing to show for their work.


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  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2011

    Location: London

    Posts: 4,419
    I'm Robert.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    You've pretty well summed up the situation AlphaGT, there is seemingly no original thinking, poetic writing, beautiful melody or harmony now; nothing 'grabs me' the way it used to.

    I detect very little passionate expression of a deeply felt personal view on something in what I hear, and any tension in the performance is more to do I imagine with the artist's inner desires to 'make it', or the difficulty in reaching a note.

    The predominance of women with perfect teeth, eyebrows and tits is noticeable, as is the usual Mariah Carey style of singing which emphasises vocal dexterity to the point of absurdity.

    In the 70s the originating singer-songwriters had something to say, and did so with only relatively minor alteration of ' the message' from the people in charge. My collection is full of it.

    The arrival of the corporate control, notably with Stock Aitken and Waterman, marked a change in which they were now the driving force, producing reactionary socially acceptable 'bubble gum' and using pretty people to perform it.

    Now it is Simon Cowell and others running it, and this reflects the increase of corporate power in the world in general IMO. Anyone not controlled in and by a dumbed down world is ignored, and in a democracy, the principles of which seem now to apply to everything because of the use of stats, the lone voices of truth can be easily ignored, and even ridiculed by those who consume the pap.

    Twelve years ago when purchasing a new MOTU digital interface at the Guitar and Amp shop, the guy there said that the most bought music by 18 year olds was then DSOTM. Compare the creativity in that album with what is done now in an age of samplers and synthesisers, and with Autotune. This change is a tragic loss and a cloning of people; a cultural cess pit. (Now, er, my spelling and punctuation?)
    +1 Dennis. Like you my collection is crammed, probably 90% 70's - early 80's.

    I've often had the conversation at work and most are in agreement that during that period we were blessed with the cream of all genres - the artists, lyrics, musicianship, rhythm - the music ! just fab, the vast majority of it.
    There was much that we now call legend, genius - hardly any sight of much worthy of such accolade since.

  8. #28
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

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    Fact is music is great but the music business sucks and always has done.

    Remember 'Home Taping Is Killing Music'? The idea that if we carry on buying blank tapes and copying our mate's albums then the musicians will all pack it in and there will be no more new music?

    Insulting crap of course and indicative of the ugly corporate mindset the business had then and still has now. Rather than them stop the making of music to punish us, we should just stop buying it and demonstrate to them who actually has the power in the relationship.
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  9. #29
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 1,861
    I'm Dennis.

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    Almost all of my music is full of content of great significance Robert, and it became the main 'thread' in those days to express feelings about politics and psychology in a non formal and poetic way.

    These artefacts were so influential in my formative years, and I have the better ones on CD as a reference for my own aspirations. Now there is a paucity of stimulating revelatory stuff around, or at least that gets exposure, but it must be possible to create art which has the same impact on a more mature and worldly person in his 60s, as did that stuff in those days for the young in their 20s.

    We could start a thread on what was the music which we think the greatest because of its content and impact on our lives; most of my own choices would I am sure meet with agreeing appraisal.

    In February I went to the V&A to an exhibition of the 60s revolution, and it was very refreshing to see the extent to which it really was involving the arts universally; what was said was valid, and still is, and we don't seem to have improved the human condition much.

  10. #30
    danilo Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Fact is music is great but the music business sucks and always has done.
    Rather than them stop the making of music to punish us, we should just stop buying it and demonstrate to them who actually has the power in the relationship.
    Been 'doing that' since 1980.
    Albeit mostly .. buying on average 1 brand new recording a year. Often none for 2 years.
    Take full advantage of the Massive accumulated store of recordings... already existent and long ago paid for.
    As for Music business;
    Son's friends have a moderately successful Band; Marianna's Trench (only in canada tho)
    Their Muzak is imo unpleasant teen market stuff, of no interest to me.
    Odd as 3 of them have serious music education credentials
    They sell their recordings online.. directly.
    Most of their income derives from performances though.
    That said each of the 4 of them 'take home' close to 200$k per annum.. so far.
    Surprised the hell outa me too.

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