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Thread: Impedance Matching/Mismatch

  1. #21
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

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    I'm Grant.

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    Does it get very loud very quickly?
    Last edited by struth; 19-04-2017 at 14:56.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    DENON DV2900 - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER23, SPOTIFY PREMIUM - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN's - Q ACOUSTIC BT3 actives - CANTON SUB - MAINS REGENERATED AND FILTERED.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: Belfast/Northern Ireland/UK

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    I'm Neil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon_LDT View Post
    That's what I'm thinking to try. I don't think many passives have tape outs, from those I've seen/read about.



    I don't have many different interconnects around but I did try 4 different ones and no luck (Van Damme, Klotz MC500 and Mark Grant's Canare & G1000HD).
    I recall years ago coming across a similar issue that was solved via a cable swap, the fact you have tried several with no change shows its not that. It was a very long shot though.

    I have however had problems with kit with very high output overloading inputs which manifests in a similar way to how you described. Sometimes companies are not totally honest with their specs. First time I tried a Chord DAC 64 many years ago it overloaded the input on the amp I was using at the time. That company subsequently changed the amp design to accommodate higher output sources.

    Some modern highly compressed and loud CDs can tip things too, what is just on the edge of being ok with normal CDs can be overloaded by this type of CD.
    Regards Neil

    System 1: AMG Giro turntable, AMG 9W2 tonearm, Air Tight PC3 cartridge, Passlabs Xono phonostage, AMG Reference armcable. Accuphase DP57 CD player, Marantz SA7 SACD player, Sony HAP Z1es Digital File Player, Veracity Mystra DAC + Dell Laptop for computer audio, Audio Valve RKV2 headphone amp, headphones Grado GS 1000, Balanced Audio Technology VK300se integrated amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 speakers. Cabling: Signal - Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, Atlas Mavros, Speaker - QED Genesis Silver Spiral. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, Analysis Plus, TCI. Mark Grant distribution blocks, Equipment tables Target Audio B series.

    System 2: Loricraft Garrard 401 turntable, SME 5 tonearm, VDH MC10 cartridge, Graham IC70 tonearm cable, Modified Technics 1200 turntable, Triplannar 7 tonearm, VDH Frog Gold cartridge, Paul Hynes SR7 PSU, Balanced Audio Technology VK10se phonostage, Moon Andromeda CD player, Esoteric P5 SACD transport and P 5 DAC, Toshiba 9500 DVD Audio player, AMR DP777 DAC + HP laptop for computer audio, Kenwood 8300 tuner, Revox B760 tuner, Magnum Dynalab signal sleuth, Leak Troughline tuner + EAR Stereo decoder, Revox B77 mk 2 & Revox A77 mk3 reel to reel recorders, Balanced Audio Technology VK52se pre-amplifier, Music Reference RM200 mk1 power-amplifier, Anthony Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers. Cabling: Signal/Speaker - Atlas Mavros. Mains Cabling: Audience AU24, TCI. Mains distribution blocks Mark Grant and Russ Andrews, Equipment tables Clear Light Audio.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 662
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    There is still something not right here whatever "cure" is used.... No modern amp should be overloaded by a CD player (or other digital source with 2V output) as this is the de facto "standard" input these days!
    I agree. I wonder how long the mkI version was available and why it's been superseded by the mkII. Even so, how would it even get to market if it can't handle 2V? And where in the chain is its volume control? If it was the first thing the signal encountered it would be a simple matter to turn it down to prevent overload.
    On the assumption that it's only quite small/light, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to send it to Jez for checking out and/or repair.

  4. #24
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,588
    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    I agree. I wonder how long the mkI version was available and why it's been superseded by the mkII. Even so, how would it even get to market if it can't handle 2V? And where in the chain is its volume control? If it was the first thing the signal encountered it would be a simple matter to turn it down to prevent overload.
    On the assumption that it's only quite small/light, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to send it to Jez for checking out and/or repair.
    That's the crux of it, where's the vol control? Indeed as I suggested it should not have got to market if it can't handle the standard 2V output of the sources 90% of customers will be using with it!

    I wasn't for a moment suggesting that the op send it to me for any tests, more just a throwaway comment that as in 90% of such cases it would be dead easy and take minutes if one was present with suitable test gear to see it for ones self. If the op really wants me to check it then I can do that but would need the source as well as the headphone amp and if I found a problem I would have to modify it to suit I guess. It may be not an overload problem but a case of the headphone amp oscillating when it sees a certain source impedance or combination of that and output level. Another possibility is that the source doesn't like a capacitive load it sees in the headphone amp and oscillates.... Without an oscilloscope the op would never know.
    Arkless Electronics-Engineered to be better. Tel. 01670 530674 (after 1pm)

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  5. #25
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 415
    I'm Simon.

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    Just to update, I'm currently using a Tisbury passive (mk2) and going through that there is no distortion either. I've got it set at 0db on the dip switches and plugged into ouput 2 which is set to looped. In my limited knowledge, I take it that it's basically acting like a tape out as it's sending the input (DAC) straight to the output, taking out the volume pot?

    I can only assume there is some kind of incompatibilty between my DAC and headphone amp (could be the oscillating maybe like you mention Jez). Very strange indeed.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 662
    I'm Andrew.

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    Yes, it's strange that it works fine with the Tisbury and the other peramp, but not when the DAC goes straight to the headphone amp - the signal level should be the same in all cases.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 415
    I'm Simon.

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    Well, well, well... Just had an interesting development. Having lived with the Tisbury a few days, I like the sound so am leaving it in place for a few weeks before switching back to the active to compare.

    Anyhow, I've been connecting up all sources and while doing so, I left a set of IC's in the 2nd output of the DAC still going into the active pre. Now, when I went to listen, there was now distortion coming through the speakers! After more fiddling with cables to see why this was suddenly happening I found that by removing the 2nd set of DAC outputs the sound returned to normal. I haven't yet re-tried the headphone amp because I am sure when I did before I still had both outputs active but I will report back when I do.

    If it turns out it's the DAC at fault, why would having IC's plugged in both outputs cause this distortion? Surely it's designed to output to both otherwise why have them? (btw, the active pre was not in use when this distortion occured).

  8. #28
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 415
    I'm Simon.

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    Yep, just tried the headphone amp straight from the DAC, without having the 2nd set of IC's connected and no distortion at all. Looks like it's the DAC at fault.

    Bit annoyed about this, looks like I'll have to send it back to Arcam.

    Anyone know what the problem might be?

  9. #29
    Join Date: Aug 2011

    Location: Coventry, England UK

    Posts: 415
    I'm Simon.

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    Just found this in the manual:

    ''The D33 DAC provides a pair of unbalanced audio
    outputs on standard RCA phono connectors and a set
    of balanced audio outputs on male XLR connectors. All
    audio outputs are available simultaneously, allowing
    multiple devices to receive the D33’s output signal.
    However, to maintain the cleanest possible signal path
    the pair of unbalanced outputs is not individually
    buffered. This means that if two amplifiers are
    connected, both must be powered on to avoid degrading
    the signal.''

    Could that be the issue? I shall have to try both amps on and see whether the problem goes away.

  10. #30
    Join Date: Feb 2013

    Location: W Lothian

    Posts: 35,350
    I'm Grant.

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    could wel be.. yeah try both on.
    Regards,
    Grant ....

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work
    .... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
    DENON DV2900 - TWIN PRO MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIERS - XIANG SHENG DAC\PRE\HEADPHONE AMP - AUDIO TECHNICA ATH-MSR7 & OPPO PM-3 PLANAR HEADPHONES - WIN10 JRIVER23, SPOTIFY PREMIUM - SMSL M6 MINIDAC - FULL RANGE TWIN TELEFUNKEN's - Q ACOUSTIC BT3 actives - CANTON SUB - MAINS REGENERATED AND FILTERED.

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