Location: Sussex
Posts: 324
I'm Simon.
Here is my amateur (but very well considered I think) view of why trolls exist in a psychological sense.
I think the attitudes of trolls which Pharos so succinctly put in his post (which is I think very perceptive) are sadly reflected in more people in the uk then they would care to admit. Maybe we all have it in us a bit to the extent it's been infused in us by our societal psyche.
In the U.K. we live in a society now where qualities such as steadfastness and fortitude in adversity, as well as patience, were largely qualities of the war generations. Now that these individuals have largely left us, the pool of people from whom our society takes its attitude is different. I think this is true because we shape our attitudes from what we have to conform to and what is acceptable. My grandfather was the most patient person in the world and could deal with people in such situations because he was in the army in Burma and had to reflect on taking Japanese people's lives. He had to swim over a mile when the British general Sim blew up the bridge over the Sitang river in 1942 to stop the Japanese advancement on India. Now if this doesn't make you think, on his retirement in 60s Britain, why should I blow the milkman up over messing up the milk order, I don't know what will. He sadly died last November aged 99, four months short of his 100th birthday. A battle he could not fight.
So going back to my point about our attitudes being formed by our elders, I think it's also coming down to how our society is now. Our population is hugely greater than it once was but largely we are living in the same areas, with huge pressures on space. Consequently our roads are more difficult to use, such that getting to the supermarket on a Saturday afternoon and a 3 mile drive, was a 10 minute drive in the 80's. It now takes over half an hour in traffic. House prices are all but unaffordable for first time buyers too and there is no change on the horizon.
I also think the pressure on people to do more in jobs with much better communications and greater regulation on business which pushes costs sky high, makes firms need to work people harder. In addition is that we now operate in competition with markets worldwide from home in the uk, due to the Internet.
So all this pressure on people is bringing in reprehensible qualities of human beings in the uk such as lack of patience and willingness to want action here and now on things. The ability to need to get something straight away. Impulsive attitudes with no thought for others. And I'm not saying I'm immune. But with regard to this argument, how is it we can order something online and get it tomorrow but it takes me longer to drive to the shops a mile away. Whether we would admit it or not I think these are thoughts burbling away under the surface which turn us into who we are.
We see it more and more in our public services and politicians, such that it's not uncommon to have liar politicians e.g. Expenses scandals, and public bodies that perpetuate organisational failure. I think our police service is one just having read a book about the hillsborough disaster by Phil Scraton called 'the truth'. And regularly reading about unscrupulous police officers. One wonders if not one police force can fabricate evidence in witness statements to protect themselves (south yorks) and another can condone it (Merseyside) by not holding them to account in investigations, plus an ipcc who fails, what is actually going on in everyday cases with police corruption which is known to be rife. Or in the NHS who do harm to people by failings but protected and covered up by the phso. The point is that this attitude to seeing public bodies 'go it alone' by the way they do 'get away' with stuff, I think, lends itself to the attitude that people have that they too will take and form their own attitudes without a societal check to say, you can't insult someone for a simple thing like the milk. In some respects it's total disillusionment and whilst I think you can't blame members of society for holding these attitudes as our society is failing, we do have a responsibility to each other. There is no one, with the absence of the wise grandad, to provide checks and balances. But then our society and politicians don't I think show we have responsibility to each other, because they clearly don't really to us as our elected representatives. It's a dog eat dog world which is sadly hugely selfish.
And one cannot say that our generations before pass down good habits because that will change in an instant if our experiences and society change, which clearly has been the case over a short space of time e.g. Since the 80s.
So I think this is why these trolls are a law unto themselves. It's all me, me, me shaped by these types of 21st century experiences. I was watching a guy say on another forum in apology to another, that is was ok to troll because the police are too busy. This was on cyrusunofficial.
I worked for a firm once and I hadn't got my report out on time, and my manager got criticised by his female manager but stuck up for me and in a conference call, with myself, my manager and his manager on the phone. She told him to make sure I 'got the ffing report out'. I heard this and it just made me feel horrendous as I'm quite sensitive anyway but I was astounded she would care to mention this in my presence. I did not bother to pander to this lady for my promotional prospects because my integrity of being myself naturally with her, as a consequence, was much more important. I remember going into a training session with her and others afterwards and I remember her saying something like 'this is the decision to pay or not to pay' (i worked in a insurance loss adjusting firm hence this language) and I remember saying back 'deal or no deal' to which I got a laugh from the group. And I followed this up by another humorous comment later. You could tell the room was favouring my popularity at the time due to my comments, and she wasn't so much liked, but I suspect she would easily be the type of person who is a troll that has no consciousness of the effects of her attitudes to others, or that if she was aware, it wouldn't really matter anyway as she was the boss. But she clearly encouraged my humerous comments because it made her look good. I suspect like these poor hi fi forums it's often those that are in with the owners, that can escape it.
So id say when you don't like what someone says or does, be it as a manager or friend insulting another friend it's good to let them know to give these checks and balances. Don't just think about yourself and your motivation that it might upset them so they might not be your friend or best colleague etc, because there are means and ways to do it and I think in a humourous way sometimes. A colleague was driving us all to a clients sewage works on a 'day out' at breakneck speeds because we were late, and I said ; 'I know we are going to visit a sewerage works, but we might really be in the sh-t if we continue at this speed'. It got a laugh but it worked.
Regards,
Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work.... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -
Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
"You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”
“There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”
***SMILE, BE HAPPY***
Yet further evidence of ingrained delusion, but this time, his response shows an inability to see what he's written for what it *actually* is:
Which is precisely what your 'commentary' equates to from before!!Originally Posted by A Cowardly Troll
[Note *specifically* the highlighted text above, which represents the tone of said 'commentary', all of which is merely YOUR biased interpretation of the so-called facts, nothing else].
And now, because obviously what I've written has hit home, you're scrambling around, desperately trying find other evidence you've brainwashed yourself into believing confirms what you're saying is true, when in reality it is simply your wishful thinking [symptoms of delusion] making it thus.
Honestly, it's like taking candy from a baby, so before I'm accused of rather cruelly mocking the afflicted, I'll leave things there. You'd do well to quit before making even more of a fool of yourself.
Right, time to go out and enjoy the lovely warm sunshine.... L8trs, muchachos
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
Regards,
Grant .... ؠ ......Don't be such a big girl's blouse
I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy simply-doesn't-work.... ..... ...... ...... ................... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....
FIIO K7 BT, M11 PLUS, BTR7, KA5 - OPPO BDP-103D - PANASONIC UB450 - PANASONIC 4K ULTRA HD TV - PIXEL 6 - AVANTREE LR BLUETOOTH - 2* X600 SOUNDCORE - HEADPHONES INCLUDE, FIIO, NURAPHONES', FOCAL, OPPO, BOSE, CAMBRIDGE, BOWER & WILKINS, DEVIALET, MARSHALL, SONY, MITCHELL & JOHNSTON - 2*ZBOOK'S- MERCURY BD ROM, ROON, QOBUZ, TIDAL, PLEX, CYBERLINK, JRIVER - MULTI HDD'S -
Oh my god! There's nothing wrong with the bidet is there?
“Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test. It is the glory of Lincoln that, having almost absolute power, he never abused it, except on the side of mercy".
“You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.”
"You don't have free will. You have the appearance of free will.”
“There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!”
***SMILE, BE HAPPY***
Location: gone away
Posts: 4,870
I'm joe.
Location: Seaford UK
Posts: 1,861
I'm Dennis.
I agree with most of your depiction of societal changes Simon, and I also apologise for using "Dynamics" earlier if it was offensive.
(C'mon someone, tear into me about it).
I have my late Mothers childhood encyclopedias, Newnes Pictorial Knowledge, in which character requirements are listed. They include humility, honour, and valour amongst them and they sound rather archaic now, because of societal changes, which I argue were contributed by Mrs. T, and the following loss of religion as a moderating guide. We also need forbearance.
The former emphasised that individuality was mainly expressed by the acquisition of material goods, and I remember in the early to mid 80s the waves, literally, of shock flowing down my spine with her drastic and austere announcements.
The selfishness polarises people because they can see that they might be left out.
In the 70s I used to model and discuss, that I wanted a society in which for example, there were 12 of us in a room socialising, and we had a cake to share, and that we could trust each other such that I could go out for half an hour and know that my piece would be there for me on return.
But in reality someone takes two pieces, and another sees this and then thinks he had better grab a couple, no make that 3, and before long there is nothing left and five go without.
A month or so ago I was approaching the Morrisons checkout, and a large teenager walked back into me without looking, and I was shocked but said nothing. He apologised, but then his Father launched into a major attack on me for the way I looked, followed by the checkout girl also attacking on me. Things have gone rather awry in society, and many other people also think this.
I cannot see how there can be a reformation because of the increased competition and materialism.
The 'box' shouts at us every evening telling us to go out and buy stuff, immense amounts of food, and then the programmes tell us how not to be fat, that we mustn't smoke or drink to alleviate the pressure, but go to the gym.
Then they tell us they will 'see us soon' at the end of programmes. How does that work?
And we all sit in our concrete boxes with our toys, thinking we are emancipated.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!
I know it's cruel to mock the afflicted, but this one is a glutton for punishment, so I'll give him one final kicking before leaving him to his imaginary and insignificant little world:
I suggest you scroll back, re-read the relevant post and wrap your head around what I was *actually* referring to, rather than what your delusion pointed you at instead: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...438#post858438Originally Posted by A Cowardly Troll
I wasn't referring to rhetoric. Note *solely* the contents of the emboldened text. Then understand how I could equally reply: "just because you say it don't make it true"
To save any further embarrassment, I suggest you keep your sophistry and flawed logic to yourself. And lastly:
What, you mean as gutless as a worm who posts from behind the safety of a pseudonym, and who unlike those he's attacking, is too scared to reveal his true identity?? Much like 'alfer' and 'vlad dracul': spineless keyboard warriors, who would run a mile from any real-world confrontation, but who may soon be due some overdue karma.Originally Posted by A Cowardly Troll
Quim, the day you have the balls to shed your cowardly anonymity and post as a real person, like Martin or me [and display it on your forum profiles], is the day I might afford you some semblance of respect. Until then, you're a 'no mark'.
Cheerio now
Marco.
Main System
Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.
Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.
Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.
CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.
Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.
Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.
Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.
Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.
Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.
Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!
Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!