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Thread: I feel terrible....... Trolls on Forums

  1. #31
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 69,994
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Adder View Post
    Grudges should be left at the door.
    Indeed, and interesting you should mention that, Jo, given what's just happened to me on a certain other forum

    Some folk appear to never let them go, and move on..... More on that later!

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  2. #32
    Join Date: Mar 2016

    Location: Barnet, london UK

    Posts: 198
    I'm Adam.

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    Simon, it's not nice to hear someone struggling, rest assured AoS can offer you some calm. It's supposed to be an enjoyable hobby and remember fundamentally music never lets you down (Prince's wilderness years did let me down though!). I hope you find some peace with the help of a few Parishioners here. Life's too bloody short to worry about shite you experienced on "another forum"
    They are a good bunch on here and a tighter community than others. "Keep on Keeping on" Simon. Audio Als right Booolax to 'em .
    "lack of passion is fatal"

    LP12, Kore, Lingo2, Aro, SKale / DV XX2Mk2, Benz Micro Glider L2 / WAD 300b Power Modded, Mesh Plate Valves / David Coe AD Audio 'Satchmo' Pre & Phono / Hashimoto HM-7 SUT
    / Kudos Cardea 2 / Rpi3 & Digi + pro / SW1X Audio Design USB-SPdif / SW1X Audio Design DAC 1 Signature / Synology NAS Drive / Tidal HiFi

  3. #33
    Join Date: Feb 2017

    Location: Sussex

    Posts: 324
    I'm Simon.

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    Hello Marco, it was a bit cathartic I suppose and as you said. I have tried to get help but largely it doesn't exist in the sphere of the NHS. I suppose I should have spent the money on private help rather than hi fi, but I don't know if private help could sort it too. My issues are more problematic than I'd care to say, but this is probably going off the point.

    Maybe it's me and I have to look at how I can get annoyed sometimes but I don't feel it was very nice to spend ages helping people and then get rejected. Maybe forums are not for me, but I will play it very carefully and circumspectly from now on, as to debating with people for the sake of discussion (and being wrongly seen as being trying to enrage argument by some, which isn't the case)

    I was on avforums and the guy who runs it just seems to do it for the sake of his business but he has no interest in people helping people out for free. A lot of the people say things like decent hi fi is just as good as spending £20 on a hi fi dock, a slight exaggeration but I'm not far off! His name is Stuart Wright. Largely, not to blow my own trumpet, the kit I have and had before is a lot better than most on that forum so they maybe thought I was a hi fi snob. I was saying such things as cables make a difference, only for members to rubbish firms like chord and others and I told them to stop doing it as people's jobs could be affected by people who rubbish them but have never actually heard their products and if others believe what these people say. The owners did not do so and I found out on speaking to their editors (Phil Hinton) that he believes all cabling is 'snake oil', so they let these members carry on spouting rubbish. But it was more than rubbish, it was a concerted effort of inexperienced people to rubbish cable firms business, that exist because people must think they are good, as why are people buying their products. Then I was told by 10-20 people I must be wrong and hearing bias. I don't even work in the industry too! It didn't just extend to cables either but budget versus quality audiophile components. The survey on this forum shows that almost all people with decent kit shows that quality cabling does matter. What avforums are saying is use kef blades with 99p per metre spewker wire and believing it's no different from buying proprietary speaker cables. It's unbelievable as a forum the people think this, and I suspect they don't own decent hi fi.

    I've been on forums before and if ever you have a strong view, you get shot down. I hate this, as people have no idea what's on the persons intentions. On one forum called cyrusunofficial I had to leave as I had very bad trolls even calling me offensive names, and all such members are still there. It's like a clique of very few people who chat with each other and reject, as a collective, people who have a different opinion. I think when some people loose a debate they tend to go towards offence as the only way they can deal with it. But I won't be doing much debating on here to try and not attract these people to cause offence. These are the real trolls and people who hide behind keyboards and not me. If you debate, a person looses the argument or debate, and then they cause offence, these are the trolls for me. And these forum owners do nothing about it which is worrying to.
    Last edited by Dynamics; 21-04-2017 at 11:34.

  4. #34
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 198
    I'm Dennis.

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    Our posts crossed Simon, and what you describe is well documented in group behaviour, and now we even have the widely used expression "Groupthink".
    When challenged, most people will adhere to a 'group norm' regardless of it validity.
    This is a problem for people like me who seek truth, placing that objective above other personal needs

    The phenomenon which you have experienced is not unique to audio forums, it is in fact a universal truth.

    I have mentioned that I have been persecuted all my life, this extending throughout my career, and its roots seem to be in the human predicament.

    We are an insecure species because we have a society in which competition for survival needs is pre-eminent.

    Our self development is done 'on hoof' amidst this, and we are constantly having to improvise our strategies for survival.

    The result is that we all tend to have low integration personalities because we do not have time to (metaphorically), put all the pages in the right place, all the books in the right order, and clean up everything afterwards making sure there are no 'loose ends' not dealt with.

    So we end up with 'erroneous zones'; areas of what we believe, and which are faulty in that they are incomplete and inappropriate in some cases. This can lead to prejudices, the most obvious of which are the ones now outcast; racism, anti-gayism et al.

    But there are also numerous other smaller ones which we all have, and whilst googling yesterday I came across "Attribution bias" and it is really illuminating, exposing the way that we may be biased without knowing it.

    For eg. a simple one, we may attribute our own success to effort and skill, but when another achieves we may say he has privileged circumstances, and so it goes on.

    In essence I am saying that many peoples behaviour is not all thought out and the result of integrated thinking, it is often the result of 'left overs' from other dominant factors in their lives.

    I am not excusing this behaviour, and I have agonised over my experiences to the extremity of self doubt, but it will continue, and we have to learn to be as the old Zen statement recommends; 'a limp piece of string when the sharp knife comes our way', rather than 'a taught piece which the knife easily cuts'.

    I seem to have been ridiculed for most of my life, and for most of my individual choices, even when often those choices have placed me well ahead of a group.

    Your validity and worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas.

    Regarding bullying on audio forums, and I hope the moderators will not delete this, I expressed the view on the HUG site that when I changed my AVI S2000MP pre for the ATC SCA2 pre, I could hear a difference.

    The owner of the site immediately ridiculed this, and then sent me a PM saying that I had been given three infraction points for posting my statement.

    I then received several PMs from other members, and one said something like;
    "What next. detention, or lines".

    Two years later the owner of the site posted with great exclamation that he was horrified because he could now hear a difference between two well spec'd amps.

    I wrote to him asking him to apologise to me and remove my 'infraction points', but received no reply. This is disgraceful arrogant and impolite behaviour.
    Last edited by Pharos; 21-04-2017 at 14:56. Reason: error correction

  5. #35
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

    Posts: 3,350
    I'm Shaun.

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    A really nice thread this one. I do so hope that Simon's head and thoughts are now in a better place as I have thirty years experience of this shit and it is so bloody difficult at times. This forum is the place I have chosen to be most of the time but when my thoughts are not so good I stay away for a while. I do though always end up back here as there is always some nutter there to put a smile back on my face. Another really good point about this forum is that it doesn't just have to be about hi-fi. For that I am so grateful.

    Nottingham Analogue Interspace deck - Funk Firm Achromat - Origin Live Onyx tonearm - Denon DL103
    Marantz CD6005 into an Audiolab M-DAC latest Lake West firmware

    Prima Luna Prologue 3 preamplifier - Rothwell MC Headamp
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    QED Reference Audio 40 on phono stages
    Grado SR125e headphones

  6. #36
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: WIltshire

    Posts: 121
    I'm Peter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    A really nice thread this one. I do so hope that Simon's head and thoughts are now in a better place as I have thirty years experience of this shit and it is so bloody difficult at times. This forum is the place I have chosen to be most of the time but when my thoughts are not so good I stay away for a while. I do though always end up back here as there is always some nutter there to put a smile back on my face. Another really good point about this forum is that it doesn't just have to be about hi-fi. For that I am so grateful.

    This is possibly the best post I've had the pleasure to read... well done you lot.

    As for Simon, some of us on this forum know exactly where your coming from.... never been trolled, but certainly suffered from depression after being diagnosed with Throat Cancer.

    What makes me happy is the support and expert advice you get from this forum, when you think all is lost. Never encountered such support.

    Mind you...... don't mention Tidal, as there are many Round Black Stuff aficionados on this forum (as I am) but the responses always give me a smile and never a real bad word..... just opinions.

    Only a member of a little over a year but so enjoyable.

    I can only say Welcome, you will enjoy !!!!



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  7. #37
    Join Date: Feb 2008

    Location: South Wales

    Posts: 5,948
    I'm NotTakingLifeTooSeriouslyTheseDays.

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    Realy sorry to read this Simon,
    All I can say is, you wont get that treatment here on AOS, as its not tolerated, and certainly not condoned!
    AOS' unlike most of the other major HI FI related forums out there' is packed with decent like minded people, ready to offer their help, and experiences on all things Audio related, and dare I say is noted for its off topic areas too. So a big welcome from me, and all at AOS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.

    I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.

    I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.

    I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
    "Today scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
    Nikola Tesla


  8. #38
    Join Date: May 2010

    Location: Vancouver, Canada

    Posts: 1,680
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamics View Post
    I've been on a different forum for 6 months , can't say which I don't think for breaking the policy here. On it I've helped over a 100 newbie people out with hi fi recommendations. I'd posted around a 1000 posts.

    I had a troll which they didn't do anything about and I lost it in the last few days, and found their moderators aggravating me too in the last day. I'm a bit shamed to admit I lost it. I even sent the owner the troll message to me admitting he was trolling me. In the end I was banned and the troll stayed there.

    I'm not a nasty person , I love hi fi, but I feel absolutely terrible at the moment. I've been mentally unwell with depression for some time and have tried a number of times to kill myself in the last few years with money and job worries even though at times I've done ok, I haven't for some time now.

    I feel right now I want to drink myself into oblivion and throw that bloody hi fi off my balcony and me with it. All a load worth of newish pmc 25 series, cyrus signature stuff and chord cables. In fact I feel like I want to give it away for the bad feeling connected with it. I just can't believe these people on that forum would be so callous and ungrateful when I'd helped so many of their readers out.
    The shield of anonymity seems to give superpowers to people with evil mental disposition. They then purposefully seek people who they can sniff out as being good natured, well mannered. Their ultimate goal is to destroy such people.

    Don't regard them. They are stewing in their own toxic sauce of hatred. They are eating up their own hearts, and there is nothing you can do about it. I know it is easier said than done to not pay any attention to miscreants, but there are tricks that can help you actually do it. For example, I have a blanket explanation for any vile, overtly toxic and vicious ad hominem attack I witness online -- I always dismiss it with a wave of my hand telling myself: "Another pimple faced frustrated twelve year old loser whose only joy in life is to sit in their parent's basement and make prank calls!"

    Believe me, picturing the frustrated pimple faced twelve year old loser doing it really helps diffuse any mental anguish. Try it!
    Don't you just hate it when you cannot detect where the post ends and a signature line begins?

    Alex.

  9. #39
    Join Date: Mar 2017

    Location: Seaford UK

    Posts: 198
    I'm Dennis.

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    Yes Alex, it is persecutor and victim roles.

    The persecutors like to bully others, probably chosen for their sensitivity and self effacing nature, and I suspect that you are right about them stewing in their own toxic source.

    They almost certainly do it to boost their self esteem, they not having enough 'stick' to apply themselves to anything constructive, and so they attempt to destroy others' attempts to so do.

    At the end of the first year of my apprenticeship I came first in producing a unipivot pick up arm which rested an aluminium '1/2" hole' on a 1/8" point. Another apprentice came up to it and hit it hard the arm down on the point with a ball pane hammer. You can imagine the results.

  10. #40
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Forest of Dean, Glos & Cambrian mountains, Wales

    Posts: 8,498
    I'm Jerry.

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    Well done, Simon, for posting about your problems.
    You have my sympathy and best wishes.

    I've been on hifi forums for a little over 10 years now, and have been on the receiving end of some severe and hateful trolling.
    It's easy to want to respond and justify your position, but it has become clear to me that it is often the best thing just to walk away. Online trolls are often the nastiest kind of bully - if you reply and stand up for yourself they respond by just hitting you harder.

    You need to find a space where you are comfortable and among like-minded people. Welcome to AOS.
    Jerry

    Main systems:
    Spotify Premium streaming, DAC3 NOS TDA1543. Pure Sound L10 preamp, Pass X150 power amo. Speakers: MBL 116F. Atratus3 i/c & Western Electric 16GA spkr cables. ProJect and Nordost Magus power cables

    Headphones: Fostex T50RP mk3, AKG 551, JBL Synchros S700, B&O H6, PSB M4U-1, B&O Form 2 & 2a and Sony XBA-H1 & SoundMagic E50 IEM headphones

    2nd system: Spotify Premium streaming / Pioneer DV-535, Audiolab MDAC, Black Cat power amp, Chario Syntar 100T speakers. Headphones: Beyerdynamic DT-150, SoundMagic E10 IEM headphones

    3rd system: Portable CD player, Kinter MA-180 T amp, Klegg Symphony 102 speakers

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