Can an idler-wheel TT beat my Roksan Xerxes? is a Garrard or a Lenco up to it?

[farflungstar]

+1

[petrat]

I had a grease-bearing 301, which Martin Bastin said was one of the quietest he'd ever worked on. However, I preferred a later 401, which had less rumble and a more detailed, incisive sound. Personally, I think that a well-sorted Thorens TD124 has the beating of both, and in your positon, Panos, that's where I'd be looking for a decent upgrade (which actually isn't going to be easy from your current deck).

[paulf-2007]

I've owned transrotor belt drive, 401, Colaro 2010 and Lenco ptp, all sounded very much the same, I've never heard a standard lenco but from what I've read the lenco needs a lot of money thrown at it to equal a 401, I threw a lot of money at my lenco right off and it was as good as the 401. Collaro was very good but speed change was dodgy.
Now I have Denon DP80 and its better than the idlers, has the same bass, rhythm and pace and also wonderful detail retrieval. The DP80 is a different animal to other Denon dd that look the same but the DP80 has a three phase motor.

[farflungstar]

There's a mystique about the idler drives that draws people to them - but there's a reason the BBC replaced their Garrards with Technics SP10 - zero rumble, absolute pitch stability and sound. I can understand the draw towards idler but I wouldn't go back to one as a main deck after living with the SP10.

[ianlenco]

There may be a mystique about idler drives but I think there are more practical reasons why people are drawn to them. Sure, the Garrards are a nightmare of mechanical parts under the top plate but Lencos are fairly simple beasts and as a result are easy and cheap to fettle and that is the key to their success. Service the moving parts (motor, bearing and idler wheel) and you have a very decent deck in stock form but go a bit further and give it a decent, solid plinth supporting the top plate and you really start to get a giant killer. That's why so many people have dumped expensive belt drive decks - just look at the price of "upgrades" for a Linn etc. If you enjoy a bit of HiFi DIY then a Lenco is a great place to start. It can be upgraded relatively easily and cheaply but if you want to spend money then there are plenty of people offering improved bearings, idlers and even motors most of which are not actually necessary If on the other hand you want a plug and play solution then get a top notch direct drive like the Denon DP80 which Paul mentions. I've got a similar flying saucer type from JVC and it's a joy to use although this also benefited from a better plinth. Wth my Lencos I do sometimes worry if everything is running as smoothly as it should but the JVC just does its thing, every time. Problem is of course that these old DD's have fairly complex electronics with a lot of the IC's now unobtainable so if they blow up they are possibly irreparable. Not so the Lenco where parts are still cheap and available with plenty of on-line information to help keep them running.
So, to sum up, if you want to play, get a Lenco but if you want to plug and play then stick with your Roksan or get a top end DD but these are not cheap!

[DiveDeepDog]

Get a standard Lenco, see if you like it is the simplest solution.

It won't give you the ultimate sound, but if you like the bass driven sound (don't mix this up with quantity, rather quality) there'll be no going back.

In my beginning, I had Manticore Mantra, a friends idea led me towards L75 and ever since I've only ever been happy with an idler. I've had lots of belters including 30kg German heavyweight and LP12, but still prefer the sound of an idler.

If you can diy, ply plinth, service and reasonable arm is as far as most need to go. The souped up Lenco vs Garrard will go on forever, I prefer Garrard's but have made some very decent Lenco's

[Wakefield Turntables]

why not just buy both and have done with it?

[pankon]

why not just buy both and have done with it?

I also have a Denon DP45F, which has not been used for quite some time. Would it be worth changing the stock tonearm to something better (say an Audiomods) and also the cartridge, and giving it a spin? Or should I not bother at all?

[anubisgrau]

That's an interesting comparison, Gordan. How would you also position/describe belt-drive turntables in the above context?

Thanks.

Panos

i guess it's highly personal. i think the variations of belt drives are sooo huge. probably the best deck i've heard was belt driven (platine verdier) but on the other hand i'm not a fan of SME just as i dislike anything thorens based. FWIW i really love the deck you own, my friends happily live with it for long time.

[paulf-2007]

One more important thing about my Denon DP80 is its bang on speed within milliseconds. My kit is in a purpose built room in the garden and only heated when I am there, the lenco took half an hour to get up to speed, the 401 less so but needed adjusting several times before it settled. But the Denon runs right on speed regardless of anything that might try to to hold it back.