+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47

Thread: Can an idler-wheel TT beat my Roksan Xerxes? is a Garrard or a Lenco up to it?

  1. #11
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Not heard the Roksan, but have both a 401 and a 75. If I was to make a bit of a generalisation, idlers are generally more bass driven than belt drives. Slightly smaller sound stage, but make up for it with a musular, more "driven" sort of sound, whereas belt drives can sound a little airy fairy by comparison. Better sound staging though..

    Kind of like the difference between SE and PP valve amps I guess.

    Whichever you choose, unless you are buying a finished project which will cost a lot more, you'll be needing to do a bit of DIY. If you can though, both these decks offer pretty much unrivalled VFM.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  2. #12
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 31,859
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

    Default

    They all (idler-drive, belt-drive and direct-drive) have their pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses. It all depends on what you want (rhythmic pace and momentum, low noise, good timing, excellent speed stability, simplicity of maintenance etc.) but I wouldn't get too partisan about it.

    I have had hands-on experience of five idler-drive designs (Collaro 2020, Garrard 301, Goldring G99, EMT930 and Thorens 124/II) and two belt-drive designs (Thorens 150/160 and Linn LP12). However all the types that I have owned have been idler-drive.

    At the moment I have three Thorens 124/II decks and an EMT930st, a situation that is unlikely to change.
    Barry

  3. #13
    Join Date: Mar 2008

    Location: Galashiels

    Posts: 13,669
    I'm inthescottishmafia.

    Default

    Indeed, an EMT is a nice thing to have.
    “Music has always been a matter of energy to me, a question of fuel. Sentimental people call it inspiration, but what they really mean is fuel. I have always needed fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio”

    Hunter S Thompson

  4. #14
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ali Tait View Post
    Not heard the Roksan, but have both a 401 and a 75. If I was to make a bit of a generalisation, idlers are generally more bass driven than belt drives. Slightly smaller sound stage, but make up for it with a musular, more "driven" sort of sound, whereas belt drives can sound a little airy fairy by comparison. Better sound staging though..

    Kind of like the difference between SE and PP valve amps I guess.

    Whichever you choose, unless you are buying a finished project which will cost a lot more, you'll be needing to do a bit of DIY. If you can though, both these decks offer pretty much unrivalled VFM.
    I see where you are coming from with respect to the comparison of SET with PP valve amps. The latter are usually more punchy but lack the finesse and detail of the former. What one chooses is a matter of preference, although the ideal would be the combination of the two in one package.

    Going back to the TTs, I would be interested in doing a bit of DIY, but I suppose it is important to start from a solid foundation. So, if I supposedly go for a Garrard, where can I find a good 401 and what would be its cost? How can I be sure that it will be worth the asking price, since I am inexperienced on that field?

    Cheers.
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  5. #15
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 1,736
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    You've got nothing to loose, buy both, when you've reached your conclusions you sell the rest and you are all the better for it.

    I recall the VPI 'tables of 10 years ago, their top end HRX had an idler upgrade. A big heavy flywheel driven by the motor that ran a tire against the side of the platter, reviews were mixed.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #16
    Join Date: Nov 2008

    Location: belgrade serbia

    Posts: 840
    I'm gordan.

    Default

    i'm wondering how many of you heard lenco and garrard neck to neck? very different sounding decks, difficult to compare, addressing different preferences. restored lenco much finer sounding, more details and refinement, garrard more dynamic and punchy. both more exciting to listen than DDs, but certainly less neutral.
    Gordan.
    Speakers: Oris Swing MkII
    Amps: Thomas Mayer 300b/ Hiraga La Maison de L'Audiophile 20
    Preamp: Silver AVC by eng. Ferenc Lazar
    Phono Preamp: Shishido LCR by Solaja Audio
    Decks: Garrard 301 Martin Bastin reworked/plinthed with Fidelity Research FR64fx
    Garrard 401 in eng Ferenc Lazar solid wenge plinth with SME 3012/2
    Cartridges: SPU Spirit/ Koetsu Black revisited by eng. Salai/ Miyajima Shilabe
    Step Up Transformers: Tango MCT 999/ Ortofon T-5000/ Lumiere SUT
    Digital: Shigaclone by eng. Ferenc Lazar with Lampizator Amber II
    Wires: of sufficient length

  7. #17
    Join Date: May 2015

    Location: Greece

    Posts: 249
    I'm Panos.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anubisgrau View Post
    i'm wondering how many of you heard lenco and garrard neck to neck? very different sounding decks, difficult to compare, addressing different preferences. restored lenco much finer sounding, more details and refinement, garrard more dynamic and punchy. both more exciting to listen than DDs, but certainly less neutral.
    That's an interesting comparison, Gordan. How would you also position/describe belt-drive turntables in the above context?

    Thanks.

    Panos
    System1: Lenco L75 with custom plinth, SLAT, sph bearing, SG4 external power supply + Alfred Bokrand AB-309 tonearm + Denon DL103R (aluminum body) + Well Tempered 12" tonearm clone + Denon DL103R (wooden body), ASR Mini Basis Exclusive HV, Marantz CD6005, LAB12 DAC1 SE+, Hattor BIG passive + active pre, Lab12 Suono power amp, Falcon LS3/5a Gold Badge, LAB12 Gordian, Belden 8428, Black Cat Red Level Triode, LAB12 Knack MkII

    System 2: Roksan Xerxes original (HiFi Inspire plinth) with Maxon ReMax motor + Audiomods Series6 + Ortofon Cadenza Black microridge retipped, ASR Mini Basis Exclusive, Marantz CD6003, Croft Micro25R + Series7R monoblocks (110W/ea), Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniv.

    System 3: Marantz CD6003, Croft SuperMicroII ('R' spec by Croft, Tesla E83CC in phono)+ Series7, Snell Type EII (with bypass caps, new internal wiring, WBT nextgen 0703Cu), Mark Grant HDX1, Atlas Hyper 3.0

  8. #18
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Hartlepool UK

    Posts: 1,640
    I'm Alan.

    Default

    I used to own at the same time:-

    Linn LP12 Belt
    Michell Gyro with ORBe upgrades Belt
    Rega P3 Belt
    Garrard 401 Idler
    Technichs 1200 DD
    Pioneer PLC 590 DD
    Lenco 75 Idler

    I decided to downsize and just keep the decks I liked the sound of so I sold the LP12, Gyro & RP3 I do prefer the pace and timing of DD or Idler and I don't think they miss out in any other area with the right Arm Cart combination

    Alan
    Turntable - Garrard 401/Jelco 750L/Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, Pioneer PLC 590, Micro Sieki MA505 , Denon DL103R - DIY Paradise Phono stage - Reel 2 Reel Studer A810, Otari MX55,Tascam BR20, Revox A77, B77, PR99, TEAC X1000 & 3440, Digital HTPC / Young Dac - Preamp - DIY B4, 821, Power Amp's DIY Avondale NCC300 Mono Block, Speakers Wilmslow Kit Volt BM220.8 / Scanspeak D2905/9500

  9. #19
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Alicante. Spain.

    Posts: 1,885
    I'm Adrian.

    Default

    Whichever route you decide to go divvy but from eBay - put out a wanted ad here. There was a superb 401 going for around 500 on here - 2k on eBay.
    Technics SP10 mk2
    Jan Allaerts MC 1 Boron mk1 cart
    Miyajima Shilabe cart
    Hashimoto HM-X SUT
    Siggwan (gimballed not unipivot) Cocobola 12"
    Aurorasound Vida LCR Phonostage
    The Truth linestage
    Dave Slagle Autoformer Volume Controller
    Cary 805c SET amps
    Audio Note ANe-SPX speakers
    Townshend Isolda speaker cables
    Cardas Golden Presence interconnects

  10. #20
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Hampshire

    Posts: 306
    I'm Mel.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 337alant View Post
    I used to own at the same time:-

    Linn LP12 Belt
    Michell Gyro with ORBe upgrades Belt
    Rega P3 Belt
    Garrard 401 Idler
    Technichs 1200 DD
    Pioneer PLC 590 DD
    Lenco 75 Idler

    I decided to downsize and just keep the decks I liked the sound of so I sold the LP12, Gyro & RP3 I do prefer the pace and timing of DD or Idler and I don't think they miss out in any other area with the right Arm Cart combination

    Alan
    We all like different aspects in our hifi which is why there are so many offerings to choose from.

    I had the first 5 in your list up until a few weeks ago but now reduced to the Michell, Rega and Techie and prefer them in that order.

    I've stopped sitting on the edge of my chair listening to bass, cymbals and speed and now just lay back and relax while enjoying the music. I find belt drives a little more airy and musical but idlers and dd's are fun to mod and play with.

    Mel

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •