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Thread: Now at Richer Sounds

  1. #21
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,773
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiz View Post
    To clarify, disco DJs have been mixing records since the early 70s (maybe even the late 60s in the case of Francis Grasso) and the MK2 was designed with them in mind according to the original product brochure here:
    https://www.vinylengine.com/ve_downl...2_brochure.pdf

    Quote:
    “When Technics introduced the original SL-1200 direct drive turntable several years ago, it made all other turntable drive systems seem antiquated in comparison. The SL-1200 became a strong favorite among audio purists, amateur and professional. It was particularly popular in discos because of its rugged construction, easy handling, high torque and good immunity to feedback.
    The SL-1200MK2 represents the next generation, incorporating numerous improvements over the original. In addition to being quartz-locked direct drive, it permits continuous speed adjustment under quartz control (within a range of ±8%). This feature will be appreciated by disco DJ's who wish to maintain consistent rhythm when changing records. Its starting torque is a high 1.5 kg.cm(1.3 lb.in), with the platter reaching rated speed within 0.7 second from standstill. It also maintains a tighter lock on the selected speed than did the original SL-1200. The SL-1200MK2 should also be virtually feedback-proof because of its special base design. The platter itself is damped on both sides to avoid ringing.”
    Didn't realise they also marketed the deck at DJ's Chris so thanks for that. From what I have read the original brief was for a second tier broadcast deck for studios that could not afford SP10s or who wanted competent decks to back them up. Once marketing get a hold of it things can change. Was the pitch slider incorporated for the DJs specifically? Or was it just a case of 'We can so we will'.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jul 2012

    Location: Wimborne

    Posts: 701
    I'm Alex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Yes Chris (and Paul), but the original SL-120 (from 1972), upon which the later SL-1200/1210 is based, had no such pitch control, or indeed even a tonearm, and it cost more then than an LP12, which was also introduced in the same year:



    The fact is, the Technics was not originally designed as a "DJ deck" at all, but rather a very high-quality turntable, aimed at discerning audiophiles. I presume you're not saying differently?

    It was only later, when it became the SL-1200, we all know now, that National Panasonic decided to make some concessions to its design that would increase its appeal to the DJ market (where the blurb you've quoted comes from), which had embraced the reliability and solidity of its design, fast-start up times (due to its relatively high-torque motor), and most importantly, superb sound.

    Marco.
    Aren't those little knobs the pitch control?

  3. #23
    Join Date: Sep 2016

    Location: SE England

    Posts: 16
    I'm Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Yes Chris (and Paul), but the original SL-120 (from 1972), upon which the later SL-1200/1210 is based, had no such pitch control, or indeed even a tonearm, and it cost more then than an LP12, which was also introduced in the same year:

    The fact is, the Technics was not originally designed as a "DJ deck" at all, but rather a very high-quality turntable, aimed at discerning audiophiles. I presume you're not saying differently?

    It was only later, when it became the SL-1200, we all know now, that National Panasonic decided to make some concessions to its design that would increase its appeal to the DJ market (where the blurb you've quoted comes from), which had embraced the reliability and solidity of its design, fast-start up times (due to its relatively high-torque motor), and most importantly, superb sound.

    Marco.
    Marco,
    No I’m not saying differently, we are in agreement there
    However, the SL-120 does have pitch control – they are the two rotary pots at the front, one for each speed.


  4. #24
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Indeed, but they were different from the sliding pitch control, later located much more prominently on the fascia, which I believe also offered more fine levels of pitch adjustment, and that was introduced to increase the T/T's appeal to DJs.

    The essential point however, is that the Technics wasn't at any stage originally designed as a 'DJ deck'. Like Martin says, it wasn't just DJs who used them, but many professional broadcasting houses/radio stations, where the budget wouldn't stretch to SP10s or EMTs.

    As far as audiophiles were concerned, back in the day, most of us were too wrapped up in the whole 'belt-drive was superior' thing, perpetrated by magazines and dealers, and which made us become somewhat anti-direct drive, prompted also in no small part by some of the truly awful plastic Jap D/D turntables of the day, which sounded dire.

    The Technics, however, was a completely different beast! As indeed were numerous other quality direct-drives, produced by the likes of Pioneer, Denon, Micro Seiki, Marantz and JVC - unfortunately all largely ignored by the (then) rather biased British hi-fi press!

    We're only now starting to learn just how good some of those things were......

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #25
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chiz View Post
    Marco,
    No I’m not saying differently, we are in agreement there....
    However, the SL-120 does have pitch control – they are the two rotary pots at the front, one for each speed.
    Yup, just answered that point, Chris

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  6. #26
    Join Date: Nov 2011

    Location: Newcastle UK

    Posts: 3,745
    I'm Rich.

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    Not at that price. Reckon my moderately modded old un would give that a fair old run for its money.
    One of these days... I'm going to cut you into little pieces.

  7. #27
    Join Date: Apr 2009

    Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

    Posts: 231
    I'm Ian.

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    Interesting, We need to see the innards with the platter off.
    I would expect a complete redesign of the PSU,motor drive/control electronics and improved rotational spec.
    Of the £1299 take off £300 for VAT and the recent £ to Yen value change. Dealer profit of at least £300 so the real S/H value of the new deck is £600 (probably being manufactured for around £300)
    A good S/H 1200 will set one back around £300?
    To improve this we have to mod the PSU.Change the bearing, Tweak the platter.
    3 stage PSU mod about £190 DIY
    Bearing £150 DIY
    Platter about £80 DIY--circa £410-450
    The one common feature looks like the arm. From the photos I cant see any difference
    Having done all the above mods first, on my own deck I found I gained a much improved SQ by removing the techie arm wand and fitting a straight CF wand about £30 -60 DIY (dependand on how one gets a new headshell)
    So lets round up the DIY route to cover the any odd extra bits you have to buy and we are looking at £500- 550.
    Added to a S/H 1200 at £300 means about an £800 spend.
    Both decks need a cart.
    If you are looking at the cost of up grading a 1200 using retail priced goodies you are not going to get a lot of change from £1000. from Bearing PSU and platter. add to that the £300 for the s/h 1200 and you are very close to the new deck price.
    All the new deck may need is a better arm wand.?
    Why have Technics not done this, is it a marketing decision to target the disco. rather than Hi Fi users
    The proof of the pudding
    Anyone heard one connected to a good hi fi system
    Technics 1200 tweaked,Ianmac Bearing,DACT DIY Phono Pre, Belcanto CD-2, Engineered Switzerland DIY Renderer, Benchmark DAC2, Hypex NCore, ATC SCM40
    2nd system --Engineered Switzerland DIY streamer, Sony CDP11,Topping D50 DAC, Hypex NCore. Kef 1point2 speakers. Ianmac Filters

  8. #28
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,773
    I'm Martin.

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    They do claim that the arm, whilst looking similar to the old one, is completely revamped.

    The motor is a different design.

    Loads of info and topless pics out there on the web

    Appreciate some are looking at it from a sound quality/value for money point of view. Very sensible, not what I am doing though. I like the SL1200 for more nebulous reasons and like the idea of having a brand spanking new one. That's all.

    I suppose from a pragmatic point of view I don't think they will be making this new version forever and as there will undoubtedly be a lot less made than the previous version it may well become a collector's item and appreciate in value. Especially if I never take it out of the box. (Not that that would ever happen).
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Go for it, mate. You know you want one... And it would be interesting carrying out 'new vs. old' Techy comparisons, especially with yours being virtually stock, the results of which I'm sure would be very interesting!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #30
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,773
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Am off up Liverpool in a bit so might go in Richer Sounds and have a look at one in the flesh.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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