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Thread: NAS Super-Low Noise Linear Power Supply

  1. #121
    Join Date: Nov 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlash View Post
    No, because a corrupted 0 doesn't become 90% of a 0, a slightly distorted 0, it becomes a 1. That's an unstable and non-compliant digital cable.
    You just said it was an analogue signal, so it must be affected by the same parameters.
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  2. #122
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlash View Post
    I don't believe they do get corrupted. That's my point.
    I'm confused now. So who is saying they do get corrupted then? It doesn't seem at all likely.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smegger68 View Post
    Of course. However in the context of ethernet packets, it's completely irrelevant because of CRC error correction and transport protocol resends. Since none of this is time domain dependant it will not affect the final sound.
    That's what I once thought.
    When you can switch between a Cat5e patch lead, and a Cat6 patch lead, and consistently hear a readily apparent difference in sound quality it starts to throw doubt on those truths.
    Chris



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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    That's what I once thought.
    When you can switch between a Cat5e patch lead, and a Cat6 patch lead, and consistently hear a readily apparent difference in sound quality it starts to throw doubt on those truths.
    That could be down to some factor other than that the data signal gets corrupted. That's an unlikely explanation at best. What would actually happen if that was the case is you would get drop outs in the sound.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #125
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Nigel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I'm confused now. So who is saying they do get corrupted then? It doesn't seem at all likely.
    No one is saying they get corrupted. I was saying they would have to get corrupted for a difference to be heard. I don't think they do so a difference won't be heard. But this is in MY system where the NAS PSU is not on the same mains circuit as my hifi; it is not a generalised statement that a linear NAS PSU can't ever make a difference.

    If this doesn't make sense you need to read back through some of my and related posts. Taking things out of context can mislead.

  6. #126
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    You just said it was an analogue signal, so it must be affected by the same parameters.
    No, incorrect. It is but it can't be.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smegger68 View Post
    Exactly right.
    Thank you! I thought I was losing it for a moment...

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratmangler View Post
    That's what I once thought.
    When you can switch between a Cat5e patch lead, and a Cat6 patch lead, and consistently hear a readily apparent difference in sound quality it starts to throw doubt on those truths.
    In the context of ethernet packets, it doesn't make a difference. In other areas, it can. Cat 6 has a very different shielding configuration to Cat 5e in order to bring down crosstalk so that it can be used for longer runs and for higher density data. The overall signal ground of any analogue system can be affected by this, altering RF levels at the DAC. The data hasn't changed. The analogue system might however.... It's going to be very system dependant.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Speaking of lateral thinking it interests me that so many people seem to think that issues with digital replay are the result of the '0s and 1s' being corrupted, and the obsession with getting 'bit perfect' reads and so forth. Looking for a digital solution to a digital problem.

    Is it not possible that although the digital signal is transmitted without issues (and it is highly unlikely that it isn't, hence why when I send a Word doc to a printer it prints off without any errors) that noise is also being transmitted? Not in the digital signal (the 0s and 1s are unaffected) but 'piggy backing' along down the wires (or if wireless, piggy backing on the broadcast signal) and causing an increase in noise floor?

    Regardless of whether we can class the signal digital or analogue it still needs electricity to work, that means a power supply and that means the potential for noise. I don't think it is any accident that over the years I have found that digital sources that have had attention paid to the power supplies sound better than those that just have the minimum required to work. Reading threads such as this one this and other forums it is clear to me that I am not the only person to discover this.

    Yet with digital audio there still seems to be far more attention paid to factors that should really make no difference at all to what is heard - extended bandwidth, jitter, bit perfect 'reads' and so on.

    Does no-one ever join the dots?

    Of course decent power supplies are expensive and hidden inside the case so perceived value to the customer is non-existent compared to the facility to play DSD or MQA or any of the other 'solutions' offered by marketing departments. Far better for the manufacture to save money there and spend it on the fancy case and promoting the hype instead because this is more likely to result in better sales and that is the bottom line for any company. You don't sell what is needed, you sell what people think they need and this is not always the same thing.

    Furthermore even if they have paid attention to the power supplies and mentioned it and people do notice the improvement they are still likely to ascribe it to something other than the power supplies - the clock, the mech, the DAC chip, or some nonsense about sampling rates or 'timing'. No wonder a lot makers no longer bother with optimising the basic electrical engineering, too many audiophiles are just not interested in that side at all. It doesn't grab their imaginations.
    Some good stuff in this long post but also some poor stuff, like the paragraph starting "regardless of whether...". I will post separately to clarify what I think is happening in Marco's system which I believe might well make a real audible difference.

  10. #130
    Join Date: Mar 2017

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    I'm Nigel.

    Default NAS Super-Low Noise Linear Power Supply

    Last night I thought I might have found a better way of explaining why I believe a linear PSU might be making a difference in Marco's system and cautioning why we must be careful about the mains "topologies" into which we extrapolate his experiences.

    Marco's NAS is on the same mains supply as his hifi. I believe that the improvements he is hearing are due to the replacement of a noisy switched PSU on his NAS by a quiet linear one and nothing to do with the digital signal being transferred from the NAS.

    This experiment, carried out without expectation bias (bear with me...), should demonstrate whether I am correct. Unfortunately Marco won't be able to do it like this as it would be a waste of his hard-earned, but it's a clear illustration of the principles at play.

    So our compliant subject Marco buys another identical NAS with its original switched PSU. He has it in position but not plugged into the mains; his system is as it is today. He listens to his music and loves it.
    Now he plugs in the second NAS to the mains, maybe in the socket next to the one the linear PSU is plugged into. He powers up the second NAS using the original switched PSU from NAS 1 (to eliminate another variable as this could have been an unusually noisy one) but note that this second NAS is not connected to anything other than the mains supply and is not transmitting data to anything.
    I believe this will make Marco's system sound as it did before his linear PSU upgrade. The noise of the switched PSU is back in the system. I believe the second NAS is required so that current is drawn by the switched PSU but someone might correct me here.

    The clear distinction which I'm trying to draw here is between the noise in the mains - which affects genuinely analogue signals and therefore sound quality - and the "digital" signal being transmitted in analogue form from the NAS. The two are not connected. Many of the posts here lose the connection with the context of Marco's system, and the arguments made as a result are invalid extrapolations to the general case.

    Somebody please tell me this helps?

    Nigel

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