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Thread: Quality in Spades

  1. #21
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 69,220
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    Personally I prefer bare ended cables - I don't like the bananas on my isolda cables but can't change them. I just don't see the point of adding another interface/change of metal/added resistance.
    Makes sense, Adrian, and if you're willing to regularly bare more fresh cable, in order to maintain signal integrity, once the old bits (as a result of being exposed to air) become oxidised/tarnished, then that's cool.

    I can't be arsed, so that's why I use spades

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Modified Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  2. #22
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 69,220
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    The logistics.

    Any even extremely well machined to high finish metal pin, has, under an electron microscope a seriously uneven surface.
    These asperities are so pronounced that only a small potion can interact with any interfacing mating part.

    Considering that the vast majority of plugs and sockets are made from sheet material forced onto formers, and that there is little guarantee that the result will be anything like conforming with the desired shape, there will inevitably be air gaps in addition to the asperity problem.

    I agree with the above re cable ends; I solder the speaker cable together after twisting, and then crush that under the force of the terminal 'nuts' on the speakers or amplifier.

    The soft materials allow some compliance from malleability, and will be crushed by the nuts to increase the surface area of contact.

    Of course cleaning and re-doing are necessary with time, but this saves a lot of money on expensive plugs and sockets which cannot hope to really mate with a good contact surface area.

    The spades above are better, being softer, but they have a screw interface as well, and I would bet that measurement of R would vindicate my approach, which also saves money.

    I would have S.Steel terminals, and use a spanner lightly to do up the nuts, further compressing the soldered wire.

    BT uses bifurcation, a tapered fork into which one strand is forced. The result apparently gives a more reliable connection than other methods because of a 'cold weld'.
    Some salient points there, Dennis, all of which should be considered. I'm happy with the solution I've adopted, so there's no need for me to change it.

    Marco.
    "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do". - Milan Kundera.

    "Your validity or worth are not defined or determined by the views of others with their own superimposed agendas". - Pharos (on AoS)

    My system:

    Modified Technics SL-1210MK5G/Mike New high-precision bearing & baseplate/Mike New ETP platter/Bruil record weight/Nagaoka GL602 crystal T/T mat. Paul Hynes SR7EHD PSU (plus regulator modules)/DCSXL pure-silver DC lead. Ortofon RS-212D tonearm/'Speedy Steve' custom-made Ebony armboard. Yannis Tome 423.5 Phono Silver-Litz tonearm cable, with Furutech CF-DIN(R) and Eichmann silver Bullet Plugs. Cartridges: Denon DL-S1 in AT MG-10 headshell with AT-6106 Quattro Hybrid lead-wire. Denon DL-103C1 in '103U' headshell with AT-609 silver lead-wire. Vintage Denon DL-103AU in AT-Ti15ANV Titanium Headshell. Shure M55E in Denon PCL-300 headshell with 6N silver lead-wire. Shure original USA SC35C. Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 transport/DAC. Raspberry Pi-3 Model B and IQaudio Pi-DAC+/Paul Hynes SR3DR-05 linear PSU/Williams Audio NAS linear PSU. Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X preamp. Modified Goldpoint SA4M-47 passive preamp. Stereo Coffee LDR. Head-amp: Paul Hynes design/SR5 PSU. Also modified Lentek. Tube Distinctions 50W Class A P/P Copper amp with cryo-treated Tung Sol KT150s. Speakers: 'Lockwood Majors', using 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds, modified with bespoke crossovers. Also Celestion Ditton 15XRs. Stands: Mana Acoustics (non-magnetic stainless steel 'clones’). Hi-Fi Racks Podium T/T wall shelf. Sony ST-5055L tuner. Cables: Furukawa EE/F-S 2mm & 2.6mm solid-core mains leads, fitted with Furutech FI-50 IECs and FI-1363Rs. Stereo interconnects: Sommer Carbokab 225 (with silver-plated MS Audio non-metallic POM RCAs). Speaker cable: VDH 'The Wind' Hybrid II. Digital coaxial cable: 1m Trompeter Electronics Triax TRC-75-2, with MS Audio ‘Starline' silver-plated RCAs. Mains block: Mark Grant 6-way, modded with Furutech FP-1363R sockets and Furukawa cable. Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW 16.5 record cleaner.

  3. #23
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: Lincolnshire, Home by the Sea

    Posts: 3,314
    I'm Shaun.

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    I would certainly agree with those who have supported the cause for bare wire as things have changed considerably over the years. I remember back in 1979 when I had Naim pre/power gear, their loudspeaker connections wouldn't then even take QED 79 strand. In those days I was practically forced into banana plugs.
    Nottingham Analogue Interspace deck - Funk Firm Achromat - Origin Live Onyx tonearm - Denon DL103
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    B&W CM8 S2 loudspeakers

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    QED Reference Audio 40 on phono stages
    Grado SR125e headphones

  4. #24
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 377
    I'm Russell.

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    The WBT banana's that I removed were locking bananas. The pin was sliced into 4 parts, and a needle is forced in between them when you tighten the sleeve. Making them impossible to pull from their holes when expanded. I never noticed any lack of sound while using them. And yes, the Allen screws are holding these spades on. But I am a tech and I will say that nothing is as good as a soldered connection. Solder is not just melted in between the metals, it makes a molecular bond to compatible metals. Making them as one piece of metal. Years ago I broke off the binding posts on my amp, from overtightening. And I soldered the bare wires directly to the amp! I never had to tighten them or clean them for 20 years!


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  5. #25
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: vancouver

    Posts: 596
    I'm danilo.

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    I soldered my speaker wires directly decades ago.
    A good as it gets electrical connection.... after being pissed with the general crap quality of posts and the ludicrous pricings of hi zoot ones.
    But then I don't swap out bits willy nilly either... so it's not a problem... but it could be if a fiddler.
    My audio bits: Thorens / diy phono, CD/dvd player(s), diy pre, F6, Tannoy Golds in my boxes / my xovers, and of course all strung together with basic diy Wires
    Lots of Cd's, yet more audio files, a couple of hundred semi worn Lps.

  6. #26
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 377
    I'm Russell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danilo View Post
    I soldered my speaker wires directly decades ago.
    A good as it gets electrical connection.... after being pissed with the general crap quality of posts and the ludicrous pricings of hi zoot ones.
    But then I don't swap out bits willy nilly either... so it's not a problem... but it could be if a fiddler.
    I moved houses with it, I just wrapped the wires around the amp, and rolled them out at the new house, and all was well! But as I said, back then high end speaker wires had not been invented. This new oxygen free copper Monster zip cord was the latest thing. And at a dollar a foot was thought to be outrageously priced!


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  7. #27
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 501
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharos View Post
    The logistics.

    Any even extremely well machined to high finish metal pin, has, under an electron microscope a seriously uneven surface.
    These asperities are so pronounced that only a small potion can interact with any interfacing mating part.

    Considering that the vast majority of plugs and sockets are made from sheet material forced onto formers, and that there is little guarantee that the result will be anything like conforming with the desired shape, there will inevitably be air gaps in addition to the asperity problem.

    I agree with the above re cable ends; I solder the speaker cable together after twisting, and then crush that under the force of the terminal 'nuts' on the speakers or amplifier.

    The soft materials allow some compliance from malleability, and will be crushed by the nuts to increase the surface area of contact.

    Of course cleaning and re-doing are necessary with time, but this saves a lot of money on expensive plugs and sockets which cannot hope to really mate with a good contact surface area.

    The spades above are better, being softer, but they have a screw interface as well, and I would bet that measurement of R would vindicate my approach, which also saves money.

    I would have S.Steel terminals, and use a spanner lightly to do up the nuts, further compressing the soldered wire.

    BT uses bifurcation, a tapered fork into which one strand is forced. The result apparently gives a more reliable connection than other methods because of a 'cold weld'.
    This sounds like sentence in a Saudi court for infidelity!


  8. #28
    Join Date: Apr 2015

    Location: Central Virginia

    Posts: 377
    I'm Russell.

    Default

    You know, I bet lead would make for good spade connectors. Soft enough to deform when compressed, conforming to the mating surfaces. Much like car battery terminals. Of course they would be covered with warning labels for being health hazards, but for the sake of audio what's a small health hazard?


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  9. #29
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Essex

    Posts: 15,124
    I'm openingabottleofwine.

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    The late Peter Belt once advocated using lead (Pb) for the conductors of audio interconnects.

    I believe folks are being far too partisan regarding the use of either bare wires, plugs or spade connectors. With all mechanical connections, it is important the apparent mating surface area is 6 - 10x the cross-section area of the connecting cable. That, and sufficient contact force, is all that is needed and is readily achieved by most, if not all, sensible connector designs.
    Have you listened to this month's choice in the Album Club?

    Barry

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