Are you a tone guy or a details-retrieval guy?

[alphaGT]

This is a tough question.

Recently when I got the new Krell, it corrected the tone by an order of magnitude! Nice, warm, full, round! Iron fist in the velvet glove. But, after listening for a time, adjusting the speaker placement, getting the massive bass under control, suddenly now I am hearing all kinds of detail! Hearing things I've never noticed before! So I guess it is possible to help both at once? But replacing an amp is no basic tweak. I moved up about 5 steps at once with the amp. So I guess one may expect both? And what Alan was saying about Class A amps, it certainly true. Eliminating crossover distortion is a major step in the right direction.


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[Arkless Electronics]

Sorry , pressed the sent to soon.

Going from above, in my case I've reverted from an independent MC phono stage to a SUT at my detriment. As Alan pointed out, perhaps it's not the SUT that's at fault and maybe it's the Amp.

I never realised my beloved McIntosh was anything other than perfect..... but how wrong you can be.

Now looking for a replacement MC phono stage to get things into perspective.

We live and learn

Peter.


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You want to try this http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...MC-phono-stage
PM if interested. I also do a high end head amp http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...for-a-customer and review here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...mp-Full-Review

[Macca]

Not sure if the class A thing is the key. Some of the best power amps I have heard are not class A. Radford STA15, for e,g

Although of all the amps I own or have owned the two class A ones are the best. But that is more coincidence I think.

[Marco]

Both! And you can have both, if you match your system components well, especially when high-quality valve amps are used, which major on tone and timbre

But - if I had to only choose one or the other, then it would be tone (and timbre) every time. The detail retrieval vs. tone thing is highlighted best in moving-coil cartridges. Listen to a vintage Ortofon SPU (or Denon 103) and, say, a modern Audio-Technica or Lyra (anything), and you'll fundamentally *get* what the above is about!

The same happens with speakers when listening to, say, a well-sorted pair of vintage Tannoy DCs, or something with the musicality measured out of it, such as TADs/Magicos.

Marco.

[Arkless Electronics]

Not sure if the class A thing is the key. Some of the best power amps I have heard are not class A. Radford STA15, for e,g

Although of all the amps I own or have owned the two class A ones are the best. But that is more coincidence I think.

It will give several Watts in class A.

[magiccarpetride]

Both! And you can have both, if you match your system components well, especially when high-quality valve amps are used, which major on tone and timbre

But - if I had to only choose one or the other, then it would be tone (and timbre) every time. The detail retrieval vs. tone thing is highlighted best in moving-coil cartridges.

Listen to a vintage Ortofon SPU (or Denon 103) and, say, a modern Audio-Technica or Lyra (anything), and you'll fundamentally *get* what the above is about! The same happens with speakers when listening to, say, a well-sorted pair of vintage Tannoy DCs, or some TADs/Magicos.

Marco.

My Denon DL-103 was exactly what nudged me to originally ask this question. I've noticed that when I play the same track on Denon DL-103, and then on my digital system, the huge difference that immediately punches me in the face is *tone*! That vintage DL-103 tone is all but absent from the digital playback, but then digital seems to etch, carve in space instruments a bit sharper. So that to me reads as 'pick and choose -- you want that rich silky creamy sweet vintage tone, or you want that ultra high def details retrieval?'

Luckily, I can have both (but alas not at the same time)

[Marco]

My Denon DL-103 was exactly what nudged me to originally ask this question.

Interesting!

I've noticed that when I play the same track on Denon DL-103, and then on my digital system, the huge difference that immediately punches me in the face is *tone*! That vintage DL-103 tone is all but absent from the digital playback...

Then. Alex, you need to get yourself a quality vintage CD player (one that features a TDA1541-based DAC), to get that 'tone', and then modify key parts of its circuit with the best modern components, to get the necessary detail retrieval - and with it the bests of both worlds!

Then 'say hello' to what I hear in my system everyday.....

Marco.

[magiccarpetride]

Interesting!



Then. Alex, you need to get yourself a quality vintage CD player (one that features a TDA1541-based DAC), to get that 'tone', and then modify key parts of its circuit with the best modern components, to get the necessary detail retrieval - and with it the bests of both worlds!

Then 'say hello' to what I hear in my system everyday.....

Marco.

So that means that the most perfect listening experience is digital.

[Marco]

Nah - as usual it's not that simple. In reality, there is no 'perfect' anything in hi-fi - it's all about choosing the compromises you can live with the most, and ultimately what pleases YOUR ears

Marco.

[Bonky]

Nah - as usual it's not that simple. In reality, there is no 'perfect' anything in hi-fi - it's all about choosing the compromises you can live with the most, and ultimately what pleases YOUR ears

Marco.

Wise words!

R.