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Thread: Cagey's first Audio"fool" Mains Cable

  1. #31
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

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    Okies... What we really need to establish is what the "bespoke cable filters" in the plug have been designed to do (filter out), and whether applying such filtration *at source* (before your regenerator) could be making its job easier, thus allowing it to function more efficiently, which may be one of the reasons why you're hearing improvements using this cable.

    Aside from the high-quality construction of the cable in question and its connectors, the electrical and sonic effect of which I'm familiar with in my own system (as I use a non-filtered version of the same cable), the fact is that ALL filters, when introduced into the mains supply, do something, bad or good.

    They simply don't do NOTHING, and I'd wager that the plug filters in question are somehow influencing the performance of your regenerator unit and improving its efficiency, or impacting positively on the mains in some other way. It'd be interesting to measure the waveform on your mains supply, before and after simply changing the cable on your regenerator (and also note readings, in terms of any reduction in impedance) and see what happens.

    Anyway, we can surmise what may be technically responsible for any change occurring with the use of this cable David sent you, until the cows come home, but the most important thing is that YOU can hear improvements that have resulted in YOU enjoying your music more. Subjectivists use their ears to build their systems, not test equipment, so they will always act as the final arbiter.

    Enjoy

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  2. #32
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 6,562
    I'm Kevin.

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    One of the things that may lead to a better, more open sound with the cable is the increase in conductor cross section, the drain wire and the screening. I believe that my standard cable is a 1mm CSA conductor. Not particularly big for a cable feedback by the entire system. It may have been creating a bottleneck when peak current demands were occurring.

    Either way, I hear a difference with this cable (otherwise I would have sent it back) and that is all that matters.
    Others can believe what they want, but until you try it, you will never know if you would hear a difference or not.
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

  3. #33
    Join Date: May 2011

    Location: Glasgow

    Posts: 7,718
    I'm Brian.

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    Either way, I hear a difference with this cable (otherwise I would have sent it back) and that is all that matters.
    Others can believe what they want, but until you try it, you will never know if you would hear a difference or not.
    Exactly
    Regards
    Brian

    Sell your cleverness and buy bewilderment . (Rumi )


    Korus Computer Audio music server
    JustBoom DAC . HRT Musicstreamer 2
    Amplifier : Sony TA FB740R
    Speakers : Tannoy 637
    Interconnects : MS Audio / Klotz MC5000 .
    Speaker cables : Western Electric 16AG

  4. #34
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Indeed, and furthermore, the notion that absolutely *everything* in audio, which with the scantest of thought applied, seemingly doesn't comply with the laws, as outlined in 'Johnny's book of physics', or appeases one's blinkered and entrenched 'world view', must automatically be imagined, is more laughable than anything Kevin's done!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  5. #35
    Join Date: May 2008

    Location: A Strangely Isolated Place in Suffolk with Far Away Trains Passing By...

    Posts: 14,535
    I'm David.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CageyH View Post
    One of the things that may lead to a better, more open sound with the cable is the increase in conductor cross section, the drain wire and the screening. I believe that my standard cable is a 1mm CSA conductor. Not particularly big for a cable feedback by the entire system. It may have been creating a bottleneck when peak current demands were occurring.

    Either way, I hear a difference with this cable (otherwise I would have sent it back) and that is all that matters.
    Others can believe what they want, but until you try it, you will never know if you would hear a difference or not.
    Kevin, I've been taken to task for not replying to you here, so here I am..

    Why didn't you, or why don't you, try a Mark Grant mains cable for fifty notes or thereabouts. Mark's already stated the current rating in the past (I forget the exact value now, but it was here on AOS), and it was higher than the £400 Naim one which started that particular conversation. I find this cable works well in the main system either because of, or in spite of, the increased conductor area and shielding. The plugs are proper UK standard too, and it's not expensive when labour in making it so neatly is involved. Worked for me over a shorter home made cable with similar IEC and MK 13A plug.

    I do hope the magic ingredients in your new cable aren't of the VDR variety. We 'did all this' back in the 80's and after acknowledging a difference, the general eventual conclusion is that they were worse on the whole. Glenn Croft used them for a while and in recent years, he recommended I remove it from the old preamp I had, as well as the pukka mains filters he used to made (I still have them and continue to use the 4A one on one of my sources, I think it's the turntable). Although 'filters' are deeply frowned on in these circles, the Roxburgh 6A filter from Farnell (also fifty quid) works a treat on older noisy digital sources and I understand these filters work both ways, preventing less well designed power supplies from polluting other gear in the system..
    Tear down these walls; Cut the ties that held me
    Crying out at the top of my voice; Tell me now if you can hear me

  6. #36
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    They simply don't do NOTHING, and I'd wager that the plug filters in question are somehow influencing the performance of your regenerator unit and improving its efficiency, or impacting positively on the mains in some other way. It'd be interesting to measure the waveform on your mains supply, before and after simply changing the cable on your regenerator (and also note readings, in terms of any reduction in impedance) and see what happens.


    Marco.
    Easier said than done. What aspects of the Waveform are you trying to measure? Even if you did measure a difference how are you going to attribute a specific difference in sonic presentation to any one of the specific changes in the waveform? More importantly how are you going to prove which part of the mains lead created the waveform difference in the first place?
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



  7. #37
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 6,562
    I'm Kevin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSJR View Post
    Kevin, I've been taken to task for not replying to you here, so here I am..

    Why didn't you, or why don't you, try a Mark Grant mains cable for fifty notes or thereabouts. Mark's already stated the current rating in the past (I forget the exact value now, but it was here on AOS), and it was higher than the £400 Naim one which started that particular conversation. I find this cable works well in the main system either because of, or in spite of, the increased conductor area and shielding. The plugs are proper UK standard too, and it's not expensive when labour in making it so neatly is involved. Worked for me over a shorter home made cable with similar IEC and MK 13A plug.

    I do hope the magic ingredients in your new cable aren't of the VDR variety. We 'did all this' back in the 80's and after acknowledging a difference, the general eventual conclusion is that they were worse on the whole. Glenn Croft used them for a while and in recent years, he recommended I remove it from the old preamp I had, as well as the pukka mains filters he used to made (I still have them and continue to use the 4A one on one of my sources, I think it's the turntable). Although 'filters' are deeply frowned on in these circles, the Roxburgh 6A filter from Farnell (also fifty quid) works a treat on older noisy digital sources and I understand these filters work both ways, preventing less well designed power supplies from polluting other gear in the system..
    I am still waiting for Mark Grant to get back to me after contacting him by e-mail (several times), hence going elsewhere.
    I know he is a busy chap, but it is not always convenient for me to contact a supplier by phone. My job sometimes requires my phone to be turned off.
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

  8. #38
    Join Date: May 2012

    Location: Toulouse, France

    Posts: 6,562
    I'm Kevin.

    Default

    I am quite happy with this cable, so I am thinking of ordering another three very soon.
    Maybe I will,get a bulk discount if I ask nicely?
    Kevin

    Too busy enjoying the music....

    European loan coordinator for Graham Slee HiFi system components..

  9. #39
    Join Date: Jan 2008

    Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK

    Posts: 110,012
    I'm AudioAl'sArbiterForPISHANTO.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by REXTON View Post
    Easier said than done. What aspects of the Waveform are you trying to measure? Even if you did measure a difference how are you going to attribute a specific difference in sonic presentation to any one of the specific changes in the waveform? More importantly how are you going to prove which part of the mains lead created the waveform difference in the first place?
    All good questions, Andy! Sadly, I have no suitable answers.

    All I was doing was putting forward possible suggestions as to what might help explain the improvements Kevin is hearing. How those would be carried out, however, is up to anyone who wishes to try them.

    Trying to dig deeper into explaining the possible cause, is certainly better than [like some] immediately dismissing out of hand Kevin's legitimate experiences, simply because what's been reported doesn't fit with their rather blinkered world view!

    Marco.
    Main System

    Turntable: Heavily-modified Technics SL-1210MK5G [Mike New bearing/ETP platter/Paul Hynes SR7 PSU & reg mods]. Funk Firm APM Achromat/Nagaoka GL-601 Crystal Record Weight/Isonoe feet & boots/Ortofon RS-212D/Denon DL-103GL in Denon PCL-300 headshell with Funk Firm Houdini/Kondo SL-115 pure-silver cartridge leads.

    Paul Hynes MC head amp/SR5 PSU. Also modded Lentek head amp/Denon AU-310 SUT.

    Other Cartridges: Nippon Columbia (NOS 1987) Denon DL-103. USA-made Shure SC35C with NOS stylus. Goldring G820 with NOS stylus. Shure M55E with NOS stylus.

    CD Player: Audiocom-modified Sony X-777ES/DAS-R1 DAC.

    Tape Deck: Tandberg TCD 310, fully restored and recalibrated as new, by RDE, plus upgraded with heads from the TCD-420a. Also with matching TM4 Norway microphones.

    Preamps: Heavily-modified Croft Charisma-X. LDR Stereo Coffee. Power Amps: Tube Distinctions Copper Amp fitted with Tungsol KT-150s. Quad 306.

    Cables & Sundries: Mark Grant HDX1 interconnects and digital coaxial cable, plus Mark Grant 6mm UP-LCOFC Van Damme speaker cable. MCRU 'Ultimate' mains leads. Lehmann clone headphone amp with vintage Koss PRO-4AAA headphones.

    Tube Distinctions digital noise filter. VPI HW16.5 record cleaning machine.

    Speakers: Tannoy 15MGs in Lockwood cabinets with modified crossovers. 1967 Celestion Ditton 15.


    Protect your HUMAN RIGHTS and REFUSE ANY *MANDATORY* VACCINE FOR COVID-19!

    Also **SAY NO** to unjust 'vaccine passports' or certificates, which are totally incompatible with a FREE society!!!


  10. #40
    Join Date: Nov 2010

    Location: Yorkshire

    Posts: 9,302
    I'm Andrew.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    All good questions, Andy! Sadly, I have no suitable answers.

    All I was doing was putting forward possible suggestions as to what might help explain the improvements Kevin is hearing. How those would be carried out, however, is up to anyone who wishes to try them.

    Trying to dig deeper into explaining the possible cause, is certainly better than [like some] immediately dismissing out of hand Kevin's legitimate experiences, simply because what's been reported doesn't fit with their rather blinkered world view!

    Marco.
    For me, not being able to answer this question is the biggest problem with this addicton (sorry I mean hobby). I'm not so sure about changes with power cables. I find changes hard to detect but this is maybe because I've made all my own? Now with respect to tonearm cables and IC's I don't seem to have the problem and can detect subtle and sometimes profund changes. I understand that a lot of effects and variables can be measured but we can't attribute these to certain things we hear. I don't have the equipment, time or patience (even though I could) to explore this section of my hobby. So, I have decided to have lots of fun assessing, buying, and making kit to produce a system which suits my tastes. I use my ears as guides and if I like something it stays in the system(s) or gets swapped or sold on.
    SS
    CD Teac VRDS25X(Audiotuned) DECK 1210 Mat Crystal Audio Mods MN Base/Bearing/Platter+Ebony armboard Feet Isonoe PSU Paul Hynes SR7EHD-27XL/DCSXL Ag DC lead/3 Stage Regs/Recap PCB+No Pitch/Strobe/Light ARM SME V(Kondo Ag Rewire&Tags) MC Cadenza Black FGS CABLES Arm Yannis SPD-4 IC Yannis 222 Litz+Ag bullets Power WAR PRE ATC SCA2 SPEAKERS ATC 50ASL STANDS Atacama PHONO Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE POWER PSAudio P10

    VALVE
    PRE
    Croft Epoch(Modded) AMP Sondex S100 (Modded) SPEAKERS Tannoy 15"MG+RFC Warwick cabs+ Ref XO + Batpure supertweeters DECK Garrard 301 Mat Teunto Bearings 401(Bastin) Plinth Bamboo Arms 3009/3012 PSU Eagle+Tachometer MC Ag Meister II/FGS + Ortofon SPU MONO CABLES Arm Yannis 420.5 Litz+ SpeakerPC Tripple C+WBT-0681 Ag IC Oyaide FTVS-510 AgWBT 0110Ag Phonostages Paradise(4 Box Mega-Modded) / Croft Musicmaker



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