Terror attack in London

[farflungstar]

Nope. I tried, honestly. But really can't figure this out at all.

You cannot understand that you are a member of the same species wth the same ancestral parents as someone in Africa or Iran? Or that humanity is understanding this and treating one another as your brother or sister?

[Marco]

Marco, my post #56 took me so long to type that I was busy at it whilst your embargo above was published. So I hope you will not take it as a deliberate flouting of your rules. Furthermore I hope you don't find my post inherently offensive in the way you have described ("intolerant", "vulgar", "condescending", "offensive"), since it is expressed soberly and in a perfectly moderate fashion.

May I ask, though, why religion is often treated (by the religious) as a "no-go" area? It's ring-fenced, with a big "hands off" sign in front of it. It's an opinion, the same as any other. It should be subject to respectful debate and thoughtful exchange of ideas like any other. Why is it specially protected from harm? Why don't the religious embrace the opportunity to discuss it with folks who don't share their view? (And by the way, saying "because lots of people are practising Christians, and it might offend them" is not an adequate explanation).
With respect (yes, really)
IB

Hi Gary,

I have no problem whatsoever with your last (well-written and expressed post), so you can relax, as that is not what I was referring to.

It was blanket, ill-considered and divisive remarks made earlier, such as "all religion is evil", and it being +1'd by folk, which I have a major problem with, as remarks such as that qualify for everything I described it as earlier, and we will not tolerate such comments being made, for reasons outlined.

So carry on, as I'm enjoying reading your (perfectly reasonable) points of view!

Marco.

[walpurgis]

You cannot understand that you are a member of the same species wth the same ancestral parents as someone in Africa or Iran? Or that humanity is understanding this and treating one another as your brother or sister?

The "spirituality" and " atom" references baffled me.

[struth]

I have no problems with spirituality. Non whatsoever, and am inclined to believe you make your own spirit as you trudge through life. It will be this that meets you when you die. Religion has not really done anyone harm, it has been peoples lack of spirituality that has, in name of religion, or whatever you decided to use as motivation for your deeds.
We are atoms, but very special ones, if we want to be.

[Infinitely Baffled]

Spirituality and humanity walk hand in glove. An atom has neither. We are all the same - we have the same parents, whether black, white or yellow we are brothers and sisters. Religion is about division, as are politics - divide and conquer. In a united world the powerful would fall. Industries would collapse. Look back into history... And see the future...

I don't disagree with what you say, Adrian. The point I was trying to make is that "spirituality", when the word is used as a expression of the values and requirements of an external, all-knowing, all-good being, doesn't mean anything to me since I haven't worked-out how to believe in the existence of such a being. However, you appear to be using the word in a man-made sense - implying perhaps a desire to behave towards mankind in a fair, decent and kind way. I agree with that aspiration completely, but for me that falls into the category of emotions and ambitions I mentioned in my earlier post, which are simply the product of chemicals, electricity and magnetism. These are human constructs and belong in the physical world. My concern is to exclude the influence of mysticism.

By the way, I'm not sure we want power to crumble and industries to collapse, do we? We just want the right sort of both.
IB

[Marco]

Religion is about division...

Not when used *properly*, instead of being twisted to suit an agenda, it isn't. I've lived all of my adult life as a devoted, practicing Catholic, and I can assure you that religion, as practiced within my circles, is about anything BUT that!

Marco.

[Marco]

Totally understand and respect your view Gary. I also appreciate that you have a heart not to want to P people off rather express how you see it, which I totally get and respect

Yes, indeed - and *that* is essentially what I was getting at earlier. In discussions such as this, you need to show due consideration for others here whom you might be deeply insulting, and very personally too, when going 'off on a rant' about religion, however justified or not it may seem!

So, *think* about what you've typed first, and whether that's the likely effect your comments will have, before hitting the send button....

Marco.

[farflungstar]

I'm bowing out if this as it's quickly becoming about religion, a misogynistic construct of control and the most lucrative business in the world. The Vatican Bank, The private Vatican army.... As mentioned earlier, we are not allowed to question why people choose to believe in fantasy, and it's their right to do so. I have no problem with that - but any religion that puts itself above another is devisive, any religion that forbids contraception to millions of Africans who will thereby contract HIV on the basis of a myth is, in my opinion, culpable of genocide.

[farflungstar]

Oops. I've probably just pissed someone off - but isn't that the basis of freedom of speech?

[Marco]

It's obviously your carefully considered POV, Adrian, not said out of malice against anyone here.

However, let's not centre the discussion around religion, which when practiced humanely can [and indeed does] do a lot of good, but rather (if necessary) the abuse of religion, and the twisting of it to suit one's own selfish ends, with often devastating results.

There is a difference, you know, and good and evil do exist in ALL things!

The problem is MAN misusing religion, not RELIGION misusing man.

Marco.