Describe differences in LP playback vs CD playback

[Barry]

I'm always impressed we get as close as we do with vinyl and CDs. If I was starting again today, I'd probably be downloading something like 24 bit/96KHz files (or better) as my media of choice. If nothing else, that'd certainly free up a load of space in the house

My feelings as well. Especially sympathetic to your last sentence.

[swampy]

Biggest difference to my ears is the bit depth. Jumping from 16 to 24 bits at 44.1K is quite noticeable esp on good headphones. Higher sample rates obviously increases the bandwidth above 22K but considering after 15K those higher frequencies can be very fatiguing I am not sure if its worth as much. Anything above 22K is harmonics that will affect the audible range but bit depth is more important. CD design did not have enough bits to start with imho. It should have been 20 bit at least making less space, i.e. 74 mins of 16 bit vs an LP length with 20 bits but a big seller was the extra space CD provided giving more music to the consumer.

Having said that, is CD a dying format ?

[Marco]

Biggest difference to my ears is the bit depth. Jumping from 16 to 24 bits at 44.1K is quite noticeable esp on good headphones.

I completely agree, as it's what I can clearly hear myself, all else being equal. So then, those claiming that there is no sonic advantage with hi-res downloads, in a revealing streaming system, are essentially deaf?

Marco.

[swampy]

I completely agree, as it's what I can clearly hear myself, all else being equal. So then, those claiming that there is no sonic advantage with hi-res downloads, in a revealing streaming system, are essentially deaf?

Marco.

deaf indeed. I have read a few articles that supplying 24 bit versions of an album is a waste but why does it sound better to my ears. It sounds less constrained, almost like some shackles have been removed. I think this is why LP format is still around, its faults are more forgiving to our ears than 16 bit issues.

[Jimbo]

deaf indeed. I have read a few articles that supplying 24 bit versions of an album is a waste but why does it sound better to my ears. It sounds less constrained, almost like some shackles have been removed. I think this is why LP format is still around, its faults are more forgiving to our ears than 16 bit issues.

I have had spent a lot of time listening very carefully to 16bit( ripped CD), 24bit and DSD (if available) and CD versions of the same album. Two albums in particular come to mind Dire Straits (Love Over Gold) and The Wall (Floyd).
Anyone who can at least get a 16bit rip and 24bit version of these and listen carefully via a revealing DAC will come to some conclusions and they may not be what you think!

Lets put it this way 24 bit Hi Rez does not necessary mean you are getting anything better at all!

Then compare them against vinyl.

Ok I will tell you what happens.

The Wall. 16 bit sounds way better than the 24 bit version. The vinyl version slaughters them both completely.

Dire straits. 16 bit good. 24 bit version - more air and very slightly better. Vinyl version on a par with the 24 bit release.

Make of that what you will.

[Marco]

Lets put it this way 24 bit Hi Rez does not necessary mean you are getting anything better at all!

Indeed.. *But* when it's been done right and the mastering is also good, the results are clearly better (on a suitably revealing digital source and system), than when simply the mastering alone is good on 16-bit recordings.

*That*, mate, is the difference!

Then compare them against vinyl.

Ok I will tell you what happens.

The Wall. 16 bit sounds way better than the 24 bit version. The vinyl version slaughters them both completely.

Dire straits. 16 bit good. 24 bit version - more air and very slightly better. Vinyl version on a par with the 24 bit release.

Make of that what you will.

Easy. Firstly, how recordings are mastered makes a HUGE difference, regardless of the bit rate, so much so that any well-mastered lower-bit rate recording will almost certainly sound better than a poorly-masted higher-bit rate one.

Secondly, where both are equal, a well-produced vinyl version of the same will generally 'iron out' any digital nasties, resulting as a by-product of aspects of digital recording, at the final stage of the process [I'm referring here to 'DDA' recordings, to use old parlance], which ears are sensitive to, whilst preserving most other aspects of fidelity.

Marco.

[swampy]

A 24 bit version can reveal more issues and problems in a recording or mix, pre-mastering, were-as 16 bit hides them. There are so many variables at work there is no black and white answer. Just play on the format you like the feel of or the one you prefer the sound of I guess and have done with it.

[Jimbo]

Indeed.. *But* when it's been done right and the mastering is also good, the results are clearly better (on a suitably revealing digital source and system), than when simply the mastering alone is good on 16-bit recordings.

*That*, mate, is the difference!



Easy. Firstly, how recordings are mastered makes a HUGE difference, regardless of the bit rate, so much so that any well-mastered lower-bit recording will almost certainly sound better than a poorly-masted higher-bit one.

Secondly, where both are equal, a vinyl version of the same will generally 'iron out' any digital nasties, resulting as a by-product of aspects of the digital recording process [I'm referring here to 'DDA' recordings, to use old parlance], which our ears are very sensitive to, whilst preserving most other aspects of fidelity.

Marco.

I understand completely about *mastering* Marco and that is the whole issue regarding digital formats. I assumed most people would take that into consideration on this forum as we have talked about this before many times.

What I am trying to point out from my experience is that 24bit recordings are not necessarily great, better and an automatic improvement in Hi Rez recordings. I was answering a general suggestion that 24 bit recordings just sounded better when quite often they obviously do not.

[Marco]

I was answering a general suggestion that 24 bit recordings just sounded better when quite often they obviously do not.

That's fine, and I appreciate that. However, you also made some points and said afterwards: "make of that what you will", so I did!

Marco.

[Jimbo]

That's fine, and I appreciate that. However, you also made some points and said afterwards: "make of that what you will", so I did!

Marco.

you absolutely right and I do agree with all your points. We are on the same page!