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Thread: Utter Confusion - SUT Settings

  1. #11
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: The Black Country

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    I'm Alan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    Perhaps, it's back to a good phono stage Preamp, unless I can get used to this sound.
    Just because it is a McIntosh doesn't mean it is necessarily a top notch phono stage. To my eyes, having studied the schematic, it is a very average implementation of a valve phono circuit.

    It uses feedback RIAA equalisation whereas passive is generally accepted to be best, plus there are electrolytic bypass capacitors in the signal path. The supply is regulated which is a plus point.


  2. #12
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 314
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics View Post
    Actually this is pretty much what I was trying to indicate, although in simpler terms intended to be helpful to the OP. SUTS are far from simple things and sometimes they work beautifully when they should not, in theory, and vice versa. The key is, ultimately, in the listening.
    My opinon is that if a SUT works beautifully when in theory it should not, there's something wrong with the theory.

  3. #13
    Join Date: Feb 2012

    Location: Falun, Sweden

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    I'm Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebottle View Post
    Just because it is a McIntosh doesn't mean it is necessarily a top notch phono stage. To my eyes, having studied the schematic, it is a very average implementation of a valve phono circuit.
    ...
    Don't know about the Macintosh 2275 tube integrated, but a friend of mine uses an E.A.R SUT to up the signal from a ZYX cart into his Macintosh MA-7000. That works beautifully and sounds quite good!
    (The Mac does not provide MC suitable amplification)

  4. #14
    Join Date: Jan 2009

    Location: Norwich

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    I'm Hugo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RothwellAudio View Post
    My opinon is that if a SUT works beautifully when in theory it should not, there's something wrong with the theory.
    I can do no better than to quote my friend Dave Cawley, although he refers to the pitfalls of measurements rather than theory, as such:

    "if it measures well and sounds good, then it is good" : "if it measures badly and sounds bad then it is bad" : "if it measures badly and sounds good, then it could be improved" : "if it measures well but sounds bad then it is bad" Dave Cawley

  5. #15
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: WIltshire

    Posts: 58
    I'm Peter.

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    I'll try to answer your questions.

    I was very happy with the Whest, apart from it's like having an electric fire on your rack (very hot !!).

    What I mean about a line stage input, is that the Whest connected to an Aux Input ( CD or CD2) or what ever was free and not into the phono connection, and all parameters were selected via the Whest (as you have already mentioned).

    The sound via the Whest is what I can only describe as "in your face", bearing in mind, I have a very unusual setup... Townsend Rock 7... Base Heavy and the the McIntosh MA 2275 which is soft and beautiful.

    I have tried to stick with the SUT to try a different sound concept, unfortunately I do not have a Myriad of individuals to tell what is best..... or indeed better.

    Perhaps to my detriment, the other SUT's I have managed to loan / borrow, didn't do it for me. if I had limitless amounts of money, I could have tried many others, perhaps with more success.

    The WHest can be set exactly as you suggested and in many ways, I sort of miss this sound but I'm trying to persevere with something different.

    Somewhat confused to say the least, but I thank you for your excellent advice and suggestions.

    Time to sit and think !!!!

    Peter



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  6. #16
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: WIltshire

    Posts: 58
    I'm Peter.

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    Alan (Firebottle)

    You have broken my heart !!!!

    The McIntosh is not a good Amp with a poor MM phono stage.

    Heartbroken.... lol.

    We all have our favourites and the Mullard Valves do it for me.


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  7. #17
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 314
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boyse6748 View Post
    I was very happy with the Whest, apart from it's like having an electric fire on your rack (very hot !!).

    Perhaps to my detriment, the other SUT's I have managed to loan / borrow, didn't do it for me. if I had limitless amounts of money, I could have tried many others, perhaps with more success.

    The WHest can be set exactly as you suggested and in many ways, I sort of miss this sound...
    Am I right in thinking you no longer have the Whest? So now you have the McIntosh which is MM only?
    So what makes you think it's the SUTs rather than the McIntosh that you don't like?
    And what was it about the other SUTs that "didn't do it" for you?

    Sorry for all the questions but getting as much info as possible is a big help in diagnosing the problem.
    BTW, did the Whest run hotter than the McIntosh?

  8. #18
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 314
    I'm Andrew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ammonite Acoustics View Post
    I can do no better than to quote my friend Dave Cawley, although he refers to the pitfalls of measurements rather than theory, as such:

    "if it measures well and sounds good, then it is good" : "if it measures badly and sounds bad then it is bad" : "if it measures badly and sounds good, then it could be improved" : "if it measures well but sounds bad then it is bad" Dave Cawley
    I quite like that
    I think I'll paraphrase it:
    If the theory says it should sound good and it does sound good, then it is possibly a good theory.
    If the theory says it should sound bad and it does sound bad, then it is possibly a good theory.
    If the theory says it should sound good but it actually sounds bad, then it is a bad theory.
    If the theory says it should sound bad but it actually sounds good, then it is a bad theory.

  9. #19
    Join Date: Feb 2016

    Location: WIltshire

    Posts: 58
    I'm Peter.

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    It's a difficult question to answer, but no longer have the Whest for reasons that are difficult to answer.

    I have have two cartridges, the Benz Wood (MC) and a Decca Super Gold (MM).

    The West never really did it for the Decca but the MM on the McIntosh really worked... perfectly suited... apart from the requirement of perfectly flat vinyl ( clearance 0.5mm). I'm sure you know what I mean.

    I wanted that sometime that I could play both... I.e. Direct into the McIntosh MM or swop to the SUT for the Benz (MC).

    Unfortunately, it appears that running two cartridges, is not a viable option.

    If I had the choice and a perfect record collection, the Decca would be the choice, but that's not the case.

    For those special moments, the Decca via the McIntosh and for the rest....... the Benz via the SUT.

    Sorry, but it's a bit of an old fashioned approach.

    Trying to get the best of both worlds...... but maybe not possible.

    If this confusing.... my apologies.

    Peter


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  10. #20
    Join Date: Oct 2016

    Location: Bolton, England

    Posts: 314
    I'm Andrew.

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    There is an alternative to using a step-up transformer, and that's to use a headamp. Ok, a bit of self-interest here - I make headamps. Anyway, the headamp I make is called the Headspace and it should give you the sense of slam and impact that maybe the step-up transformers aren't giving you.
    http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co....c_headamp.html

    There's a review here on AoS
    http://theartofsound.net/forum/showt...ell-MC-Headamp

    Anyway, it's just another option to consider.

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