What type of people own high-high-end gear?

[Marco]

That accusation could be levelled at anyone, though.

Not at all. Every single penny I've ever made has been earned legally and morally. The same can't be said for most of the 'super rich'!

So, let's just say all 'ill-gotten gains', which worldwide would amount to trillions, should collectively be taken away from the 'super rich' concerned and used instead to end world famine and homelessness.

Simples

And while we're at it, get (corrupt) governments to stop starting senseless wars, simply to ensure that 'the elite' continue to remain that way, diverting the [hugely obscene] funds spent instead, to eliminating poverty.

Marco.

[martian sunrise]

wherever you draw the line, there will be haves and have-nots, unless we all have a fuckload less than what we have now. i think a lot of the ill-gotten gains you are talking about are probably not ill-gotten, but legal because of the questionable intentions of legislation and the ability to get around rules relating to taxation etc.

[martian sunrise]

"i'm all for equality, as long as everyone has at least as much as i have now..."

[Macca]

Not at all. Every single penny I've ever made has been earned legally and morally. .

Morality is a very individual thing. Why is your definition of 'moral' earnings the one we should all accept? What level of wealth are we defining as 'super-rich' and how can you be certain that some/all of their money was made illegally?

This just sounds like 'Lets take money off rich people who are not me'.

Anthony TD has it right. Quantify the problem, identify the root causes, and tackle them directly. Otherwise you just rob all the rich people, spunk all the money, and end up back at square one.

[Marco]

wherever you draw the line, there will be haves and have-nots, unless we all have a fuckload less than what we have now. i think a lot of the ill-gotten gains you are talking about are probably not ill-gotten, but legal because of the questionable intentions of legislation and the ability to get around rules relating to taxation etc.

Indeed... In a word, corruption, which arguably is even worse (and more rife amongst governments and the elite) than illegality!

Marco.

[jandl100]

People are poor and starving due to idiocy and incompetence

I didn't think Martin was referring to the ability of the poverty-stricken themselves, but to those in power.
But a very important factor was left out there - corruption.
That without doubt imo is a principal contributor to the poverty issues faced in many "3rd world" countries.
What wealth and wealth growth there is is being illegally diverted to the already wealthy. The ultimate poverty trap.

[Joe]

So because that worked it is okay to make it legal to rob people of their money?

Drink-driving is a good example. Legislation did not really put a dent the problem, it becoming socially unacceptable did.

Of course there's no way of knowing retrospectively what effect legislation on drink-driving had, compared to what effect 'it becoming socially unacceptable' had; my guess is that the two were inextricably linked. In the same general area, do most people wear seatbelts because it's simple common sense, or because it's 'socially acceptable'? Either way, my guess is that the legislation requiring seatbelts to be fitted and worn has been a significant factor in encouraging their use.

As far as 'robbing people of their money' is concerned, all taxation is legalised theft, so if Parliament passes a law taxing all wealth above a certain figure at 100%, it's the same principle as them taxing my paltry income at 20%.

[Marco]

Morality is a very individual thing. Why is your definition of 'moral' earnings the one we should all accept?

I'm not asking anyone to 'accept' anything; simply voicing an opinion.

What level of wealth are we defining as 'super-rich' and how can you be certain that some/all of their money was made illegally?

This just sounds like 'Lets take money off rich people who are not me'.

Not at all. I think the point I'm making is pretty clear, unless you condone money being illegally earned from the likes of child trafficking, slavery or pedophilia, all of which right now are making some of the super-rich, even richer!

So are you saying that they should be allowed to keep that money?

Anthony TD has it right. Quantify the problem, identify the root causes, and tackle them directly. Otherwise you just rob all the rich people, spunk all the money, and end up back at square one.

I also agree on that aspect, so no argument there.

Marco.

[Marco]

People are poor and starving due to idiocy and incompetence

I didn't think Martin was referring to the ability of the poverty-stricken themselves, but to those in power.

Yup, and we've addressed that issue.

But a very important factor was left out there - corruption.
That without doubt imo is a principal contributor to the poverty issues faced in many "3rd world" countries.
What wealth and wealth growth there is is being illegally diverted to the already wealthy. The ultimate poverty trap.

Precisely. I've just said as much, and it makes me sick to my gut. I abhor, to my very bones, ANY form of corruption... It should be wiped out from the face of this earth, along with those responsible!

Marco.

[Macca]

Of course there's no way of knowing retrospectively what effect legislation on drink-driving had, compared to what effect 'it becoming socially unacceptable' had; my guess is that the two were inextricably linked. In the same general area, do most people wear seatbelts because it's simple common sense, or because it's 'socially acceptable'? Either way, my guess is that the legislation requiring seatbelts to be fitted and worn has been a significant factor in encouraging their use.
.

I picked drink-driving as that is a generally-acknowledged example of where social pressure succeeded where legislation did not. IME you tell people 'You can't do that' they just get resentful and may do it anyway just to spite you. If they don't do it because they personally feel it is wrong then everybody is happy.