+ Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 19 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 188

Thread: 384khz?

  1. #121
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 9,656
    I'm Gary.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I'm probably more of a wanky hi fi bollox type than you though

    I've no problem with 24/96 becoming a standard for playback. It takes any argument beyond doubt, if nothing else. But it is still pointless for any recording not made at that resolution. For anything else if you have the CD you effectively have a copy of the master. Of course it might be a crappy master but that's a different story.
    I hear ya.
    Despite having different way's to do it I don't upsample digital in software for this very reason.

    Having said that though, a 24bit relelease sounds better to these ears so I go with that, bearing in mind a lot of commercial recordings are downmixed to 16/44 for the distribution medium, but recorded in 24bit in the studio?
    And this is where higher resolution at the recording stage makes sense to me...to capture as much of the performance at the time.

    I spoke earlier about the early Ellingon recording being so musical, so the recording medium and techniques are potentially important, but there are albums that 'convey the message' just as well which were recorded on DAT, ADAT or even 4 track cassette?
    It can just...depend.

    Playing with Tidal and the 24bit MQA 'Master' versions of familiar albums, in hifi and musical intent terms they are just...'better'...so nowadays I dont sweat it and just enjoy the music.
    Never black and white though, mastering is vital, though some of my favourite music is on 320k MP3, if theres a 24bit version of it I'll go with that as better.

    I used to sweat this stuff, but I think digital bitdepth/samplerate isn't something to seriously hang your coat on?
    It's just one of MANY aspects in the chain as to what hits your ears when you sit down to listen to your favourite music.

    My ears my experience, anything over 24/96 (and certainly 384khz!) doesn't bring anything extra to the table and as Martin says, it can depend on how its recorded.
    Personally I avoid upsampling at my side as I'd rather hear what the recording engineer put out.
    CD Loudness wars/rack em up and make money notwithstanding, hearing your favourite album released in its NATIVE 24bit recording format and not downsampled, can truly be a real ear opener.

    S'all good.
    AC POWER
    Hardwired 10kVA balanced mains powering entire system
    AMPS
    Meridian 557 power Amp (Modded) / PS Audio BHK Preamp (Modded)
    SPEAKERS
    Wharfedale Evo 4.4
    DAC
    PS Audio Directstream (Modded)
    TURNTABLE
    Pro-Ject X8 balanced output via XLR / Ortofon Quintet Blue cartridge
    PHONOSTAGE
    Pro-Ject DS3 B balanced Input (TT and Phonostage powered by Pro-Ject Power box RS2 linear psu)
    DIGITAL
    OPPO 203 (Modded: Linear PSU, i2s output to Dac) - Roon Endpoint, HDMI input used for all things Streaming/ PS5 /AppleTV ... also good for movies apparently?
    MUSIC PLAYBACK
    Tweaked AP-Linux based Roon Server into Oppo 203 as Roon endpoint
    Ipad Roon Remote.
    Apple Music/ YouTube via AppleTV, fed to Dac via Oppo HDMI input/i2s output to Dac.
    SPEAKER CABLES
    Biwired: Duelund DCA10GA (Bass) Duelund DCA16GA (mid & treble) Duelund 12DCA used as jumpers (On
    "Blackcat Cable" Chris Sommivigo's advice - yup, even with biwire it sounds better - and it does)
    INTERCONNECTS
    All Balanced: Ghost+ recording studio XLR cables

  2. #122
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Hull

    Posts: 348
    I'm paul.

    Default

    @ Macca
    So, was the CHORD 64 sold on the principal of Marketing bollocks? (the '64' being the subject matter in this case)...
    Indeed, are all CHord DACs sold on the principal of Marketing bollocks?
    John Wood 6L6 Valve Amp, with:

    6L6GC Russian Original (no logo) Output Tubes 4x, supplied by J.Wood.
    ECC81 Mullard NOS Input Tubes 2x
    12AU7 (ECC82) Brimar NOS Input Tubes 2x

    Wilson Benesch Actor Loudspeakers.

    REL Stampede Subwoofer.

    Cary Audio 100t Dac.
    M2Tech Hi-Face 2 RCA USB to S/PDIF (co-axial) converter.

    HP Pavilion G6 - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + "The Teddy" 19/3 - 19V 3.5A LPSU.

    The Missing Link Ultra-Pure System ~ EPS-100 ~Audiophile Silver Un-switched Double Wall Socket +
    APC ‘SurgeArrest’ Surge protector - PM1W-UK (Schneider), + AG500P Power Inspired mains – ‘pure sine wave’ re-generator.

    Sennheiser HD 558 headset.

  3. #123
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    So, was the CHORD 64 sold on the principal of Marketing bollocks? (the '64' being the subject matter in this case)...
    The press release that has been quoted a couple of times now is marketing bollocks as far as I am concerned. I've already said so, and explained why I think that.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  4. #124
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    That's true. As my system has improved and resolution improved, I find that many of the albums I listen to on cd are on the margins of listenability. Its very disappointing as many of these albums carry specific memories or remind me of key times in my life. Yes, they may be masters in that they are lossless copies of the original recording, but that does not make them any easier to listen to.

    Geoff
    Yes, hot mastering is a big issue. I don't have too many CDs that are afflicted bad enough to make them unlistenable, but then I rarely buy new releases and if buying an older album on cd I'll make an effort to get a version that has a respectable dynamic range. Just bought a couple of the Eagles albums on CD and went for the 1990s releases rather than the later ones for precisely that reason.

    Buying a hi rez version should avoid this issue entirely, but not because it is hi rez. They could just as easily release a less compressed CD version. Since these are analogue recordings there can be no SQ benefit to be had from extended bandwidth in any case.

    In general, though, I have found that as my system has improved, SQ from CD has improved also. I don't find compressed recordings to sound even worse than they did when my system was crappier, rather I find it easier to look past the compression and enjoy the recording.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #125
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Hull

    Posts: 348
    I'm paul.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    The press release that has been quoted a couple of times now is marketing bollocks as far as I am concerned. I've already said so, and explained why I think that.
    Thank you for your kind reply Martin. Would it be fair to say in your opinion that a company with such renowned quality products as CHORD don't need to resort to this type of marketing bollocks as their products speak for themselves without 'the hype' OR maybe the hype detracts from the sale'ability? Anyone invited to state their own opinion on this matter (please)....
    John Wood 6L6 Valve Amp, with:

    6L6GC Russian Original (no logo) Output Tubes 4x, supplied by J.Wood.
    ECC81 Mullard NOS Input Tubes 2x
    12AU7 (ECC82) Brimar NOS Input Tubes 2x

    Wilson Benesch Actor Loudspeakers.

    REL Stampede Subwoofer.

    Cary Audio 100t Dac.
    M2Tech Hi-Face 2 RCA USB to S/PDIF (co-axial) converter.

    HP Pavilion G6 - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + "The Teddy" 19/3 - 19V 3.5A LPSU.

    The Missing Link Ultra-Pure System ~ EPS-100 ~Audiophile Silver Un-switched Double Wall Socket +
    APC ‘SurgeArrest’ Surge protector - PM1W-UK (Schneider), + AG500P Power Inspired mains – ‘pure sine wave’ re-generator.

    Sennheiser HD 558 headset.

  6. #126
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the_doc735 View Post
    Thank you for your kind reply Martin. Would it be fair to say in your opinion that a company with such renowned quality products as CHORD don't need to resort to this type of marketing bollocks as their products speak for themselves without 'the hype' OR maybe the hype detracts from the sale'ability? Anyone invited to state their own opinion on this matter (please)....
    Marketing works, advertising works, which is why companies spend a lot of money on it. Would they sell as many DACS without it? No, of course not. That doesn't mean we shouldn't recognise it for what it is and call it out when we see it.

    Fact is even if you have the best product in the world it will only sell itself to a minority of the potential customers without the marketing men and the salesmen getting involved. It may not be 'the way things should be' but it is reality.

    The particular product in question, at £7K or whatever, is way beyond my means. A lot of the people who do have the means to buy it will know nothing about how digital audio works. They are perhaps still unlikely to buy without an audition, but no matter how good the damn thing sounds they will still want the re-assurance of the bullshit marketing to get them as far as that audition and to convince them to sign on the dotted line.

    As enthusiasts we should know a bit better, and as this is a hi-fi site open to the general public I think that there should be at least one person putting forward the point of view that I have done, for balance if nothing else. Folk can then make up their own minds having heard all the arguments.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  7. #127
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Yes, hot mastering is a big issue. I don't have too many CDs that are afflicted bad enough to make them unlistenable, but then I rarely buy new releases and if buying an older album on cd I'll make an effort to get a version that has a respectable dynamic range. Just bought a couple of the Eagles albums on CD and went for the 1990s releases rather than the later ones for precisely that reason.

    Buying a hi rez version should avoid this issue entirely, but not because it is hi rez. They could just as easily release a less compressed CD version. Since these are analogue recordings there can be no SQ benefit to be had from extended bandwidth in any case.

    In general, though, I have found that as my system has improved, SQ from CD has improved also. I don't find compressed recordings to sound even worse than they did when my system was crappier, rather I find it easier to look past the compression and enjoy the recording.
    When I was referring to "listenability" I was not primarily referring to squashed dynamics although that is irritating and akin to having a "loudness" switch broken in the on position. What really gets to me are those recordings where the sound is a muddled mess and where instruments (including the human voice) don't sound like they do in real life. A particular bugbear is non-percussive percussion! I have arrived at my present system setup precisely because of its resolution of detail and excellent reproduction of transients so it is frustrating when this is missing from a recording. A lot of stuff from the 80s falls into this category and not just the electro-synth stuff. How difficult can it be to record a limited number of instruments and voices so as to allow each to be heard in playback?

    Geoff

  8. #128
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    I know what you mean, dull transients, bane of my life. I usually find digital recordings better in this regard but there are some top analogue recordings that do capture it all, the sort of late 1950s, early 1960s stuff Marco is always banging on about are good examples.

    But that is recording and a whole different ballgame from replay. I just accept that recordings are not perfect and move on; for me the starting point is the recording I buy. I can't change what went before.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  9. #129
    Join Date: May 2016

    Location: Notts

    Posts: 2,741
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    I know what you mean, dull transients, bane of my life. I usually find digital recordings better in this regard but there are some top analogue recordings that do capture it all, the sort of late 1950s, early 1960s stuff Marco is always banging on about are good examples.

    But that is recording and a whole different ballgame from replay. I just accept that recordings are not perfect and move on; for me the starting point is the recording I buy. I can't change what went before.
    I wish I could be more the "glass half full type" on this but I can't. The only way I can listen to a lot of this stuff is on the radio or in the car where my full attention is not devoted to listening.

    Geoff

  10. #130
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 37,779
    I'm Martin.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherwood View Post
    I wish I could be more the "glass half full type" on this but I can't. The only way I can listen to a lot of this stuff is on the radio or in the car where my full attention is not devoted to listening.

    Geoff
    Have you got examples of specific recordings? if you are talking about Classical music then I don't have a scooby about that. I'd always assumed classical recordings were consistently good.

    I was listening the other night to a 'Best Of' Creedence Clearwater Revival. Not exactly showcase recordings to begin with and being one of those compilations you buy for a quid from a basket at a motorway service station it is way too compressed. I still enjoyed it immensely though.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 13 of 19 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •