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Thread: 384khz?

  1. #141
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 16,266
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Ears are the best tool and the only things that tell you how the sound is. Hi-Fi equipment can measure very well, yet still not sound right.
    Suppose you go to a dealer and dem a system, play all sorts of tracks over an hour or so. You like it, buy it, take it home. After a while you realise you are avoiding playing some albums because they don't sound right. a bit hard, or rough, whatever.

    You can't take it back, it isn't faulty, so you start upgrading from there, using the same process. But if you don't upgrade the thing that is causing the issue then you won't solve the problem. But you don't know what is causing the issue, so you go through ten sets of speakers when all along it was the amp.

    Ears alone are not enough.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  2. #142
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Hull

    Posts: 295
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Ears are the best tool and the only things that tell you how the sound is. Hi-Fi equipment can measure very well, yet still not sound right.
    Very true! I have had that scenario myself in the past! Lots of good gear that sounds terrible together!
    ARCAM FMJ-A19 + Tacima CS947, Tannoy DC6T Speakers, Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947, Sennheiser HD 558 headset, Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER, HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]; [*using onboard battery for music listening]. + Audio Software [Room EQ Wizard, Equalizer APO, media players]. I also have a Creative Cambridge DTT2200 5.1 System, & Denon AH-D320 Phones.

  3. #143
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Hull

    Posts: 295
    I'm paul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Suppose you go to a dealer and dem a system, play all sorts of tracks over an hour or so. You like it, buy it, take it home. After a while you realise you are avoiding playing some albums because they don't sound right. a bit hard, or rough, whatever.

    You can't take it back, it isn't faulty, so you start upgrading from there, using the same process. But if you don't upgrade the thing that is causing the issue then you won't solve the problem. But you don't know what is causing the issue, so you go through ten sets of speakers when all along it was the amp.

    Ears alone are not enough.
    Yes but, you still use your ears to demo 10 different amps. speakers, dacs, media sources. I doubt if I now have the best system for the money I;ve spent. If i HAD the total amount I spent so far at the start and went to several Hi-Fi shops I pretty certain they would recommend more compatible components than what I have chosen myself, but now I always need to demo first coz the stakes are getting serious! Can't see myself buying a system based upon a mathematical probability score.
    ARCAM FMJ-A19 + Tacima CS947, Tannoy DC6T Speakers, Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947, Sennheiser HD 558 headset, Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER, HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]; [*using onboard battery for music listening]. + Audio Software [Room EQ Wizard, Equalizer APO, media players]. I also have a Creative Cambridge DTT2200 5.1 System, & Denon AH-D320 Phones.

  4. #144
    Join Date: Oct 2008

    Location: Glasgowshire

    Posts: 6,075
    I'm availableforweddingsAndBarmitzvas.

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    What would spectroscopy actually measure, chemical composition?
    Tells you zero about why people would like it.

    And like measuring hifi equipment, your measurement analogy wouldnt provide anything near a 'universal' good/bad assessment for everyone, which is the argument hifi measurebators make, but only baseline data relating to how its made up.

    And what would that data really tell you about how different people would enjoy it?
    Absolutely nothing.

    Wine, like music enjoyment and appreciation is a personal experience based on criteria set by ones own self.
    someone telling you its good because 'X,Y,Z' is completely subjective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rothchild View Post
    How might I measure the drink?

    Using spectroscopy.

    How might I measure your preferences?

    Ask you.

    With enough sample data and honest enough answers from you I'd probably start to be able to predict which ones you would like from their spectra.


    As for the other comments re maths, not understanding something it doesn't make it not true.
    Sent from my ZX81 using Sinclair Basic

  5. #145
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 16,266
    I'm Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    What would spectroscopy actually measure, chemical composition?
    Tells you zero about why people would like it.

    And like measuring hifi equipment, your measurement analogy wouldnt provide anything near a 'universal' good/bad assessment for everyone, which is the argument hifi measurebators make, but only baseline data relating to how its made up.

    And what would that data really tell you about how different people would enjoy it?
    Absolutely nothing.

    Wine, like music enjoyment and appreciation is a personal experience based on criteria set by ones own self.
    someone telling you its good because 'X,Y,Z' is completely subjective.
    But you don't decide whether you like something. It isn't like, say, choosing between buying a car and leasing one.

    I don't see why in principle you could not determine a correlation between an individual person's taste in wine or hi fi and the scientific measurements of such if you had enough data.
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  6. #146
    Join Date: Sep 2012

    Location: East Anglia UK

    Posts: 1,163
    I'm Marc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    What would spectroscopy actually measure, chemical composition?
    Tells you zero about why people would like it.
    Yes spectroscopy tells you about the chemical composition. Agreed, I don't think I've made any such claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    And like measuring hifi equipment, your measurement analogy wouldnt provide anything near a 'universal' good/bad assessment for everyone, which is the argument hifi measurebators make, but only baseline data relating to how its made up.
    Agreed re 'universality', again I don't think I've made any such claims. I'll take your word for it re 'measurebators' as it's not an area of expertise for me. Maybe you intend it to be an insult? I'm not sure it's actually anything that contributes to the discussion at hand through, as its not something I see myself as nor something I believe you have the right to label me as.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    And what would that data really tell you about how different people would enjoy it?
    Absolutely nothing.
    Hmm, I'm not sure anyone with experience of mass market research in product development would agree. Correlating real world data with human feedback is the basis of pretty much all modern marketing - if you don't believe me check out 'The Hidden Persuaders' by a chap called Vance Packard, written some time in the mid 50s. The 'why' (as you've observed above) is harder to ascertain, but it's not a problem because I don't really care what the reasons are for anybody else, as long as they're happy with their choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    Wine, like music enjoyment and appreciation is a personal experience based on criteria set by ones own self.
    someone telling you its good because 'X,Y,Z' is completely subjective.
    Yup, but it doesn't mean that I can't find some features of wine (or music) that I like and use those features to help me find more of the stuff I like, rather than wasting my time at square one every time I'm presented with a choice - subjectivity doesn't compel one to inconsistancy does it?

    If, having tried all the wine on the shelf, I decide I like ones that are 'fruity' (according to my own, subjective, opinion of what that means) I'll pick 'fruity' ones, if each time I find one I like for its 'fruityness' (subjectivly assessed) I put in in a spectroscope and realise there is a repeated feature in chemical make up of the ones I like I might assume that that contributed to what I was subjectively assessing to be fruityness? Indeed I could go one further and choose a wine that didn't have that chemical feature to see if it had or lacked the fruityness I sought to help calibrate my understanding. That understanding could help me have more of a good time and less of a bad time, yet you seem to want to argue that that is somehow a bad thing to want, or that even simply trying to achieve it makes me somehow 'wrong'?

    And none of this has any bearing on your preferences or decision making strategies as to what wine you choose to drink (or music you listen to, or the platform you listen to it on) as (wonderfully) that's entirely your perogative.

  7. #147
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 24,675
    I'm Geoff.

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    Hmm. I'm wondering if this thread is approaching the end of its useful life.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  8. #148
    Join Date: Aug 2009

    Location: Staffordshire, England

    Posts: 16,266
    I'm Martin.

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    Or actually getting interesting...
    Martin



    Current Lash Up:

    Technics SL1200 with Sumiko h/s & Nagaoka MP50 * Firebottle valve MM phono stage * Parasound CDPi1000 * NVA P90SA passive pre / Krell KSA50S Power amp * JM Lab Electra 926 loudspeakers *



    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S Thompson

  9. #149
    Join Date: Jan 2016

    Location: Hull

    Posts: 295
    I'm paul.

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazjam View Post
    What would spectroscopy actually measure, chemical composition?
    Tells you zero about why people would like it.

    And like measuring hifi equipment, your measurement analogy wouldnt provide anything near a 'universal' good/bad assessment for everyone, which is the argument hifi measurebators make, but only baseline data relating to how its made up.

    And what would that data really tell you about how different people would enjoy it?
    Absolutely nothing.

    Wine, like music enjoyment and appreciation is a personal experience based on criteria set by ones own self.
    someone telling you its good because 'X,Y,Z' is completely subjective.


    I personally prefer bananas that aren't quite ripe.
    ARCAM FMJ-A19 + Tacima CS947, Tannoy DC6T Speakers, Tannoy TS10 Subwoofer + Tacima CS947, Sennheiser HD 558 headset, Arcam Miniblink DAC + iFI iPOWER, HP Pavilion G6* - 2382sa D0Y14EA#ABU + Creative BT-D1 [+ Azio BTD-V401]; [*using onboard battery for music listening]. + Audio Software [Room EQ Wizard, Equalizer APO, media players]. I also have a Creative Cambridge DTT2200 5.1 System, & Denon AH-D320 Phones.

  10. #150
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 24,675
    I'm Geoff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Or actually getting interesting...
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

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