Alan Parsons Project.

[Infinitely Baffled]

Here lies the problem with subjective judgement!

It is actually impossible to have a constructive discussion. It just goes round and round.

Having subjective preferences is fine, obviously, and it can also be entertaining to discuss them - though you are right that a discussion like that often leads nowhere. But the problems start where someone clothes their subjective judgement as an objective statement - as you did in disputing Beethoven's greatness. I don't particularly get on with all of Beethoven (or massed orchestral music generally - the texture can be a bit impenetrable) but that does not mean he is not great. The level of my personal enjoyment of Beethoven's music tells the world nothing about whether he was a genius or not - and neither does yours (unless of course you have a grasp of musical composition and performance at the same level as Monteverdi / Bach / Mozart / Schubert / Britten, in which case I will happily withdraw my remarks)

We need to learn the difference between saying "I don't like this" and "this isn't much good". Too many people use the latter when they should really be using the former.
IB

[Spectral Morn]

I think for me, there is a degree of sameness about Alan Parson Projects music, a lot of it sounds very like other songs. Yes there are stand out tracks but not that many. I know this can be said of other artists, even ones I really like but, and I was thinking about this earlier today, and for me personally that is why I am not a bigger fan.

I am going to have a listen to the APP albums I have and see if my view changes as it has been an age since I last had a listen.

[Gordon Steadman]

Having subjective preferences is fine, obviously, and it can also be entertaining to discuss them - though you are right that a discussion like that often leads nowhere. But the problems start where someone clothes their subjective judgement as an objective statement - as you did in disputing Beethoven's greatness. I don't particularly get on with all of Beethoven (or massed orchestral music generally - the texture can be a bit impenetrable) but that does not mean he is not great. The level of my personal enjoyment of Beethoven's music tells the world nothing about whether he was a genius or not - and neither does yours (unless of course you have a grasp of musical composition and performance at the same level as Monteverdi / Bach / Mozart / Schubert / Britten, in which case I will happily withdraw my remarks)

We need to learn the difference between saying "I don't like this" and "this isn't much good". Too many people use the latter when they should really be using the former.
IB

Well, my statement about genius what a bit tongue in cheek as in "oh yes I can" I couldn't find a TIC smiley.

MY reaction was to the fact that a statement was made that "who cannot be moved" or something of the sort. Me!

My musical greatness is still waiting to be discovered. Bring on Groundhog Day!

[struth]

Disliked APP stuff in the day have to say. Thought it drivel. Not listened since tbh, and unlikely to unless thrust upon me. But that doesnt mean its shit or rubbish, just that it was/is to me.

[Gordon Steadman]

I think for me, there is a degree of sameness about Alan Parson Projects music, a lot of it sounds very like other songs. Yes there are stand out tracks but not that many. I know this can be said of other artists, even ones I really like but, and I was thinking about this earlier today, and for me personally that is why I am not a bigger fan.

I am going to have a listen to the APP albums I have and see if my view changes as it has been an age since I last had a listen.

Yup,.

To me his genius - if such it be - was in production. A very talented musician too but not a great composer. There are hundreds of bands / musicians out there who are very good indeed but few rise to the very top. Just look at orchestra players. Not in my wildest dreams could I attain the standards they have reached. But good as they are, they are not the one out the front in the spotlight. Who knows sometimes exactly what the one out front has because there are quite a few who somehow leave me cold.

I rate Alan Parsons as a good orchestra player who used his fame from production to get some recording time. The example earlier sort of sums it up for me. OK but nothing to sit and go wow about.

[Sherwood]

Disliked APP stuff in the day have to say. Thought it drivel. Not listened since tbh, and unlikely to unless thrust upon me. But that doesnt mean its shit or rubbish, just that it was/is to me.

Perhaps that's the point to wrap up this APP thread: "I know it's not complete and utter shit, but that's the smell I recall every time I hear it!"

A happy balance between objectivity and subjectivity!

[Pierre De Grenoble]

My musical greatness is still waiting to be discovered. Bring on Groundhog Day!

Groundhogs now there WAS a band

[Spectral Morn]

Groundhogs now there WAS a band

[dimkasta]

Well, my statement about genius what a bit tongue in cheek as in "oh yes I can" I couldn't find a TIC smiley.

MY reaction was to the fact that a statement was made that "who cannot be moved" or something of the sort. Me!

I see what you did there

I said that about the 2-3 notes pattern in Beethoven's 5th. That it can blow your mind.
But it was not because it moves me or that I enjoy listening to it. It is about the fact that it is a 2-3 note pattern moved and repeated around the scales, literally as a musical exercise or as some kind of pretentious bragging about composition understanding. Call that boring or whatever you want, but it is genious even if it is boring to some of us.

[Haselsh1]

"I do not like 4/4s and Beethoven is not a genius because I find him boring and that's my reallity"

Why put this in quotation marks when no one actually quoted it...?