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Thread: Mission 774 on a Logic DM 101...advise, possible improvements for the arm ?

  1. #1
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Bavaria, Germany

    Posts: 61
    I'm Torsten.

    Default Mission 774 on a Logic DM 101...advise, possible improvements for the arm ?

    Hi there,
    I got pointed towards a Logic DM 101 deck, looked around a bit & could get my hands on a black one about a year ago,
    but...without an arm.

    So, I looked around what I could pair this 80's kind of physically impressive monster with.
    It had to go within the scheme of the not-trying-to-be-beautiful weirdness & 80s ARTARI lettering style.

    Tonearm from out of space ?
    The Mission 774 came to my mind very soon, due and mainly to reports and comments I've seen around in this place.

    I've landed a 774 now and it should arrive this week.
    Cartridge shall be a Linn Troika (compliance 10), so from the colourscheme worn-black deck, black arm with red front lettering and red cartridge will be fine.

    The question is, will the rest be fine, too ?

    I read up about the deck, the arm and the cart a bit.
    Some reports of experience are exactly the opposite of others, so trying to find out what might be right was kind of an educated guess up to now.

    For the deck some wrote it should not be paired with an arm that is too haevy,
    the suspension is quite soft obviously, so this makes sense to me in some way. I don't definitely know it is correct, though.
    The Mission fits this perfectly, it is quite a light arm.
    Some wrote the Logic DM 101 will not work with a Linn Ittok or Ekos as it is too haevy for the suspension.
    Others wrote their best match on the Logic was an SME IV & praised that combination to heaven,
    quite interesting to me, as the SME IV is heavier than an Ekos still. (So that's a bit puzzling to me, comments welcome.)
    My first goal is to keep the suspension of the 101 happy with the arm choice.

    2) Arm quality in total, apart from it's weight.
    I also looked at possible alternatives, my mind was set on cool looking outsiders, mainly in black finish.
    (From looks alone, a Funk FX with red TA tube would probably be a bomb.)
    I took a look at the Logic arms they had by then.. (kind of logic if the pun is allowed..
    Some praised them, others said they are....erhh..not so good.
    Obviously Manticore continued the arms from Logic at the point where Logic crashed & improved them by another step.
    The follower to Logic Datum is said to be the Manticore Musician and/ or Magician.
    And also here, you guessed it, some said they are great, while others..

    Long story short, I checked out a bit, but I want to remain within the SME mounting scheme my DM 101 has
    to make things not more complicated for now.

    It was suggested to me to avoid mounting an arm via an adapter, as a directly coupled arm will benefit most from the sonic advantage of the missing armboard,
    the Logic's arm is sitting on a huge, massive alloy subchassis, so the direct coupling is very good. (Probably better than LP12 b4 Keel for that part..)
    I have little idea how much negative effect an adapter could have, if hair-splitting theory or if it has a negative effect on sound I could hear,
    anyway...it seemed to make some sense to me.
    Logic Datum and Manticore have both Linn type mount, so for now I won't go for any of this,
    but I'm interested in comments about their quality, particularly in comparison to the 774.

    3) Last, the Mission shall be paired with Linn's Troika, the 774 w/o damping would not be optimal for that cart, but with damping via paddels
    it should be possible to get it pretty much spot on working perfectly.
    That's a feature I really rate high on the 774.

    And finally I am interested in which way the 774 can be improved and 'tuned' later.
    Comments welcome & thx if you had the patience to read so far..

    Kind regards, T
    Last edited by torstoi; 12-02-2017 at 03:02.

  2. #2
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

    Default

    The Logic DM101 with Mission 774 is one of my favourite ever combinations! Nice
    The DM101 responds very well to a TT power supply.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Bavaria, Germany

    Posts: 61
    I'm Torsten.

    Default

    Hi Jez,

    well it was you who pointed me to the DM 101..

    Missing a tonearm, I haven't yet heard a tone of it,
    but at closer inspection I discovered some constructive arrangements that looked rather promising to me.
    And quite ahead of their time,,,I do like the non-boasting sleeper style of the deck a lot already.

    What kind of power supply are you thinking of ?

    Thanks & cheers ! T

  4. #4
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by torstoi View Post
    Hi Jez,

    well it was you who pointed me to the DM 101..

    Missing a tonearm, I haven't yet heard a tone of it,
    but at closer inspection I discovered some constructive arrangements that looked rather promising to me.
    And quite ahead of their time,,,I do like the non-boasting sleeper style of the deck a lot already.

    What kind of power supply are you thinking of ?

    Thanks & cheers ! T
    Ah it's that Torsten! Hi.

    Years ago a friend with a DM101 managed to get a board from Manticore's Doug Hewitt and I built it into a box with mains transformer etc for him. We were both amazed that it could make so much difference to be honest! Any similar unit to generate a clean undistorted 50Hz sine wave and then amplify it up to 240V should work equally well.
    However this was many years ago and I'm vaguely recalling another motor being supplied with the bare PCB which I also fitted... and that there was some sort of crude power supply already built into my friends deck which was very unreliable and I fixed the inbuilt supply maybe twice a year for him before the external psu modifications...

  5. #5
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 3,120
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    I don't know too much about the suspension TT but the Mission tonearm is incredibly versatile. It's all be down to viscosity of the damping fluid and paddle size. I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

    Should be interesting.

    Looking forward to pictures of the combo.

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 tonearm > ZYX R50 Bloom cartridge > Jolida JD9 MKII > Firebottle Monoblocks > Creek OBH-11SE Headphone Amp > IXOS Speaker Cables > Pioneer CS-77A Speakers

  6. #6
    Join Date: Apr 2012

    Location: Southall, West London

    Posts: 28,442
    I'm Geoff.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

    Should be interesting.
    Oliver, take a look at the mini expanded poly pellets used in car neck pillows. Could be what you're looking for.
    Mr. Tact!

    Main system: MMs/ADCs/Low output MC's/One rare Japanese SUT/One scarce British phono stage/various tonearms/hefty Japanese DD TT and hefty Japanese BD TT and small British BD TT. 4 CD players/2 jitter buster/2 DACs/Valve buffer. TVC stepped attenuator or valve pre-amp or solid state pre-amp. Current dumping power-amp or either of two Class A SS power-amp or Class A EL34 valve monos or big Japanese (part Class A) integrated. Big dual concentric speakers/Smaller dual concentric speakers/Two way British compacts and full range speakers, amongst others. And too much more to list!

  7. #7
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Bavaria, Germany

    Posts: 61
    I'm Torsten.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkless Electronics View Post
    Ah it's that Torsten! Hi.

    Years ago a friend with a DM101 managed to get a board from Manticore's Doug Hewitt and I built it into a box with mains transformer etc for him. We were both amazed that it could make so much difference to be honest! Any similar unit to generate a clean undistorted 50Hz sine wave and then amplify it up to 240V should work equally well.
    However this was many years ago and I'm vaguely recalling another motor being supplied with the bare PCB which I also fitted... and that there was some sort of crude power supply already built into my friends deck which was very unreliable and I fixed the inbuilt supply maybe twice a year for him before the external psu modifications...
    Hi Jez,
    yes it's well possible you mentioned the Mission 774 in one line with the DM 101 as being one of your faves.
    That got me curious & to AOS in consequence..
    My fave anecdote though is when you asked me which speakers I use.
    My answer (proud): 'Isobarik, active..'
    Jez: 'Yeah, well those are shit. Must be the worst speakers I have heard as yet..'
    I spit my coffee against the screen in laughter when I read the answer..
    And I thought: As a salesman this guy is totally crazy, but there is VERY little doubt he speaks his mind honestly.. :P
    Bottom line, they are gone, killed by 'Somethin' else' through German 3 way passive Braun speakers I got from ebay for 30€.
    The Braun showed there is a drummer with a brush holding tact in the background.
    The Isobariks showed some strange annoing noise in the background, a bit similar a white noise I could never identify what it was.
    Ok, it was the drummer & that was the last piece the Isobarik played: Somethin'else... go figure, they showed foreseing powers in their last moments.
    Now I have the NS1000, which didn't like my Naim amps (that had before called a similar charming comment from you..) & off went the Naims, too.

    Ok, that was a short drift into the topic gravel-bed,,

    I've heard the power supply of the 101 goes bust every once and then, and read up about the motor taking itself apart in suicidal manner due some reports.
    So I may think about some drive solution here at some point,,,that seems to me the one weak part of the 101.
    No idea to how far the rest is up to,,,but I hope to find out soon.

    PS: You know anything about the Manticore arms if you know Dough Hewitt by person ?
    Not relevant for my 101 project the moment, but how capable is for example the Magician compared to the Mission in your view ?

    Kind regards, T

  8. #8
    Join Date: Nov 2015

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Posts: 3,120
    I'm Oliver.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    Oliver, take a look at the mini expanded poly pellets used in car neck pillows. Could be what you're looking for.
    Haha that's genius

    Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
    Technics SP10 MK2 > Phonomac AT-1010 tonearm > ZYX R50 Bloom cartridge > Jolida JD9 MKII > Firebottle Monoblocks > Creek OBH-11SE Headphone Amp > IXOS Speaker Cables > Pioneer CS-77A Speakers

  9. #9
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

    Posts: 4,647
    I'm Jez.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by torstoi View Post
    Hi Jez,
    yes it's well possible you mentioned the Mission 774 in one line with the DM 101 as being one of your faves.
    That got me curious & to AOS in consequence..
    My fave anecdote though is when you asked me which speakers I use.
    My answer (proud): 'Isobarik, active..'
    Jez: 'Yeah, well those are shit. Must be the worst speakers I have heard as yet..'
    I spit my coffee against the screen in laughter when I read the answer..
    And I thought: As a salesman this guy is totally crazy, but there is VERY little doubt he speaks his mind honestly.. :P
    Bottom line, they are gone, killed by 'Somethin' else' through German 3 way passive Braun speakers I got from ebay for 30.
    The Braun showed there is a drummer with a brush holding tact in the background.
    The Isobariks showed some strange annoing noise in the background, a bit similar a white noise I could never identify what it was.
    Ok, it was the drummer & that was the last piece the Isobarik played: Somethin'else... go figure, they showed foreseing powers in their last moments.
    Now I have the NS1000, which didn't like my Naim amps (that had before called a similar charming comment from you..) & off went the Naims, too.

    Ok, that was a short drift into the topic gravel-bed,,

    I've heard the power supply of the 101 goes bust every once and then, and read up about the motor taking itself apart in suicidal manner due some reports.
    So I may think about some drive solution here at some point,,,that seems to me the one weak part of the 101.
    No idea to how far the rest is up to,,,but I hope to find out soon.

    PS: You know anything about the Manticore arms if you know Dough Hewitt by person ?
    Not relevant for my 101 project the moment, but how capable is for example the Magician compared to the Mission in your view ?

    Kind regards, T
    Sounds about right.... subtle as a shit on a sheepskin rug... that's me Annoying habit of being right though.. most of the time anyway.. Probably due to having been doing this since I was a kid rather than luck
    I like NS1000's BTW

  10. #10
    Join Date: Dec 2015

    Location: Bavaria, Germany

    Posts: 61
    I'm Torsten.

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman80 View Post
    I don't know too much about the suspension TT but the Mission tonearm is incredibly versatile. It's all be down to viscosity of the damping fluid and paddle size. I'm planning on filling one of my wands with foam after a re-wire.

    Should be interesting.

    Looking forward to pictures of the combo.
    Hi Oliver,
    I don't know that much about TAs yet, but from an amateur perspective I'd be worried to shoot over the effective mass goal for some carts when filling standard arm with foam or other material.
    As the arm can be damped with fluid more damping is no issue, but using no fluid already, further undamping to make it suit a cart is difficult then ?

    I thought about having a second armtube from carbon fibre (keeping the original -as it is- as a spare so it can be reverted to original state),
    inspired by Funk with a X architecture inside for damping.
    The info at the Funk website regarding this quite impressed me & reports of people having heard a big-bore RB250 modified this way by AK
    said his FX arm came pretty damn close to an Aro. ( Which in itself to me is quite a bit of a statement.

    So, my thought was that something of this Carbon X technology has to work obviously, otherwise I don't see a 250 pulling up behind an Aro any soon ?
    Optically a carbon armtube would not go ideal on a DM 101, but then, with a red sleeve and a white FX lettering and a red Troika
    would compensate nicely for the beautiful hammerhead gone.
    + null point justage easier this way as a bonus.

    I thought if I'd ask AK if he'd provide me with one of his tubes + X for the 774...at some later point, not now.

    And yes,,,pictures will come.

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