Thorens modded spring bounce issue quest...

[Paul-H]

A wall mount is one of the things I do need

I live in an old Edwardian property where the floor and ceiling slopes from one end to the other by about 18 inches, all the walls apart from one are lath and plaster, fortunately the one brick wall is the right place for my turntable, just got to convince SWMBO that it's an important item that I must have

Paul

[DSJR]

Have you got the bounce sorted yet?

If you've moved the springs on the grommets you'll have to up-end and totally re-fit the springs before starting again, as the locating grommets aren't as deep as Linn ones for example and the springs don't self-locate as easily I remember. My own recommendation for mats used to be a heavier rubber one as fitted to the 160 Super as the deck can sound wishy-washy with a lighter mat 'system,' but obviously this is personal taste.

If you remove the mat and align the platter keyhole up with the left hand side, you should see a hole in the top plate and a corresponding hole in the sub-chassis (not there on original 160's). The bottom washer on the springs takes the form of a tapered cam-washer and the idea is to hold the levelling nut in place while gently rotating the cam washer to centre the suspension as best as possible. This should be done with tonearm exit cables removed and if you're inexperienced, it takes a while. the suspension should then have a pretty good piston bounce - we used to remove the foam inners in the springs with some fine long-nosed pliers, but I'm not so sure now that this is a good idea as it helps instability rather than 'curing' anything, but that's just me.

The 160 was really designed for the SME 'Improved' models and you may actually make the sound worse with the previous massy arm, I don't know. The limitation will always be the Thorens I'm afraid, as even the Super version was barely a Rega 3/R200 in musical terms, let alone an LP12 competitor. The fixed head SME with something like an AT120E or 440MLb would be a fresh and lively sonic match - just saying and apologies if it's not what you want to hear....

lastly, the tonearm cables can be a royal pain on springy belt drives like this one. SME's cables got flexible then stiffer again and it's vital that you get the suspension right without the cables, then fit them and dress so that they don't impede what the suspension's doing. There's a neat exit clamp on most 160's and siblings and if you're careful, it should be possible to correctly dress these cables. SME did later on, make a flexible adaptor cable to aid setting up on this type of deck, but again, the cable should in my opinion pass through the cable clamp to isolate the sub chassis from exterior influence.

[tlscapital]

Have you got the bounce sorted yet?

If you've moved the springs on the grommets you'll have to up-end and totally re-fit the springs before starting again, as the locating grommets aren't as deep as Linn ones for example and the springs don't self-locate as easily I remember. My own recommendation for mats used to be a heavier rubber one as fitted to the 160 Super as the deck can sound wishy-washy with a lighter mat 'system,' but obviously this is personal taste.

If you remove the mat and align the platter keyhole up with the left hand side, you should see a hole in the top plate and a corresponding hole in the sub-chassis (not there on original 160's). The bottom washer on the springs takes the form of a tapered cam-washer and the idea is to hold the levelling nut in place while gently rotating the cam washer to centre the suspension as best as possible. This should be done with tonearm exit cables removed and if you're inexperienced, it takes a while. the suspension should then have a pretty good piston bounce - we used to remove the foam inners in the springs with some fine long-nosed pliers, but I'm not so sure now that this is a good idea as it helps instability rather than 'curing' anything, but that's just me.

The 160 was really designed for the SME 'Improved' models and you may actually make the sound worse with the previous massy arm, I don't know. The limitation will always be the Thorens I'm afraid, as even the Super version was barely a Rega 3/R200 in musical terms, let alone an LP12 competitor. The fixed head SME with something like an AT120E or 440MLb would be a fresh and lively sonic match - just saying and apologies if it's not what you want to hear....

lastly, the tonearm cables can be a royal pain on springy belt drives like this one. SME's cables got flexible then stiffer again and it's vital that you get the suspension right without the cables, then fit them and dress so that they don't impede what the suspension's doing. There's a neat exit clamp on most 160's and siblings and if you're careful, it should be possible to correctly dress these cables. SME did later on, make a flexible adaptor cable to aid setting up on this type of deck, but again, the cable should in my opinion pass through the cable clamp to isolate the sub chassis from exterior influence.

Hi David, I've got my "original" bounce back. Now I will have to do a full re-calibration of the springs. I'll do that when I'll re-skin the now totally tweaked Thorens and SME. It's actually "naked" without it's top-plate. I'll do the finish of the plinth; laker layers, sanding and wood coloration tint all together when I'll fit anew stainless steel tailor made top-plate on it.

Initially I bought it as a TD160 'Super' fitted with an SME 'Improved' to be able to run with my Denon DL-102 MONO cartridge, to fair result I did find then. I understood after a while that I could do better and improve this set-up and started to venture into the SME world and the Thorens one. At first I couldn't figure what kind of hybrid is/was my Thorens. Fairly well done, it was actually a hybrid TD160 'Super' only on the outside and a 146 inside.

Now it's a 146 sub-platter (resin 7mm bearing) and sub-chassis and chassis. It runs with a 145 motor (triangle 220 VAC resin clutch pulley) and anew PCB driver. The SME is dampened inside and converted into a heavy mass one. So I decided to add some more mass and height to the matts for all in all a much better read from my Denon DL-102 cartridge. I would call my tweaks, mods and converts real improvements even if not all very "orthodox" or "by the book". But otherwise I agree with you, the TD160 'Super' with the SME 'Improved' and certain cartridge could be a good match but it was not what I was after.

And I'm getting there; where I wanted that is. I love the fact that both the Thorens turntables tonearms and the SME are evolutive and can be creative as well. The switch to belt drive with suspended chassis I did some 5 years ago is something I could never have thought I'd do. From this day on, nothing else for me. The turntable I'd wish for is the one in progress I have home presently. SMILE...

Cheers, Tim

[Paul-H]

Hi all

A quick question (I Hope)

Anyone know what the maximum travel of the sprung chassis/Platter should be. Max to Min

I am seeing about 4 to 5mm movement at the armboard, measuring from fully compressed to fully lifted, does this sound right or should there be more movement.

Thanks

Paul