Thorens modded spring bounce issue quest...

[tlscapital]

Continuously finishing (if ever...) the tweaks, mods and conversion on my Thorens TD160 'Super' (bought as but turned to be that only on the outside), actually was a TD146 now fitted with a 220VAC motor just like a TD145, I did notice that the platter doesn't bounce as it used to. Never did I calculate the 15 seconds bounce thing but I do remember that it was indeed bouncier.

Now, to get the platter horizontal to the top plate with the close to 6 mm and/or between 5 to 7 mm gap, is no issue. But to still get a bounce, is rather problematical or impossible I now find. I've read this and that there about such to no avail I'm afraid.

To understand the tweaks and conversions that might affect the "balance" here; I've chromed the platter and swapped the original thick rubber mat for 4 thiner and lighter mats, so all in all not much extra weight in comparison to the original caliber. On the SME 3009 tonearm the conversion from 'Improved' with fixed headshell to heavier mass with detachable headshell. The extra weight on the tonearm should be close to 50 grams or so. So nothing big !?

So indeed the whole sub-platter mass is carrying a little more than before. I've checked under the platter and the tonearm replaced thick and rigid cable is not obstructing the sub-platter move at all. The spring near the tonearm even bounces easily and is the one that is way less stiffer than the other two springs that requires more work to adjust in height but then to no bounce !

Last but not least, I've also since removed the foam from the springs that only got rid of some of the muffled sound to bring a bit too much sibilance. That I could foresee later but wanted an enlightened opinion on my lack of bounce issue here. Should I try new springs ? Or what ?

[Paul-H]

Hi

No expert but on my 160 I have just fitted a new spring set front Vinyl Nirvana.

In my case the platter gap is set to 6mm all round with cork/rubber mat, LP and LP weight installed.

I don't get the 15 second bounce, but get close to 10 seconds.

All three springs are of equal strength if you have one different from the other two, I would suspect an issue as all 3 should be the same.

Paul

[tlscapital]

Hi

No expert but on my 160 I have just fitted a new spring set front Vinyl Nirvana.

In my case the platter gap is set to 6mm all round with cork/rubber mat, LP and LP weight installed.

I don't get the 15 second bounce, but get close to 10 seconds.

All three springs are of equal strength if you have one different from the other two, I would suspect an issue as all 3 should be the same.

Paul

Cheers for that Paul, but in comparison sound wise is the replacement "in your face" ? Like it was actually necessary... Tim

[Paul-H]

It's like most if not all the mods I have done

Solid MDF Base, hi quality interconnects, solid turntable mat, genuine thorens belt

Not heard a single improvement with any of them, the springs did improve the bounce but not the sound.

I accept it might be me not being able to hear the improvements, it might also be because there is no improvement.

No one likes to admit they waisted their money do they

Trouble is if something is 99% right in the first place it might cost a fortune trying to get that illusive 1%.

Paul

Willing to admit I am an audiophool. Also happy to say I am happy with the sound my 40 year old turntable produces through my 30 year old Amp and speakers.

But then again if I was to buy today's equivalent Thorens TT it would cost over 2 grand so I should be happy shouldn't I.


Was going to replace them all until I had an inheritance stolen of me, last year, but now appreciate just how good they all sound, well to my ears, which is what matters.

Paul

[Arkless Electronics]

You will need to rotate the bottom rubber bits that the springs sit on to get the bounce right Don't fret over 10 or 15 second whatever bounce though!
Oh and make sure the arm cable is correctly dressed. If it is pulling on the subchassis this will wreck the bounce,

[tlscapital]

OK folks, after closer inspection inside-out the turntable I understood that somehow the "gap" in the home made thick solid bleech-wood plinth for the sub-platter near the spring close to the motor was too "tight" not allowing enough free movement for the spring and sub-platter. A quick wood-knife cut here and there and it came back to normal ! Thanks for that. Now I do get that better bounce and the sound is "open" once again.

I still don't get the 15 seconds bounce, but rather almost 10 seconds and will precisely set them a bit later. But just before that, in a state of "emergency/panic", I was lurking here and there for new springs and found some newly made springs for Thorens (and not by) ranging from $50 to $200 !!! Anyone ever tried "higher end" expensive springs to compare if ever ?

[tlscapital]

Honestly Paul, I started my mods and conversions a year and a half ago. Did them one by one to measure each and every one on a tight budget with little money. Even if one can admit that plenty little money is big money in the end... Not mentioning the tweaks off course, the only one I could not find any benefit in is the dampening of the sub-chassis ! Every other ones I've done did change and improve IMO my sound (hopefully).

One I haven't done is switch to RCA's connector on my SME tonearm (even if I bought them as a precaution = $ wasted) as everybody recommend. Practical it is, coherent likely less I understood. So I've kept the original connectors and solder a new thick and rigid cable that is causing a lot of hassle to the solders and so I've built a rigidified "headshell" that is filled with "hot glue". Believe me that and only that dampened the sound instantly. Too much for me and just right for the guests who might not be acustom to so much clarity in sound and "airy" sound.

So lately, I've just test the springs without the foam as manies seem to do and I've gotten back my open sound ! So a totally different experience than yours. I'm no tech geek or audio nerd, I collect my old 45's since a teen and decide to render them justice with a phono that will bring the best out of them on my ear terms. No Hi-Fi but Ri(ght)-Fi guy and new to all those inside a turntable issues at 46 years old... Cheers. Tim

[tlscapital]

You will need to rotate the bottom rubber bits that the springs sit on to get the bounce right Don't fret over 10 or 15 second whatever bounce though!
Oh and make sure the arm cable is correctly dressed. If it is pulling on the subchassis this will wreck the bounce,

Hi Jez, all check, double check there and arm cable is long and curly inside the turntable to allow enough movement. It's anew thick, and rigid cable so it's held to and inside the plinth with an "harness" near it's exit. So all good there. Cheers, Tim

[system7]

I used to have the Thorens TD160 along with a few other turntables. And like you, I fiddled with damping sponges and all that stuff. I think I even tried rubbery carbody underseal on the lively metal chassis.

Motor rumble coming through the speakers was always a constant.

The main problem was always acoustic and footfall feedback to the tonearm, especially bass. Plastic lids and mounting on massive slabs made it variously better or worse.

But the best trick was to mount the turntable and even the amplification on shelves screwed to the wall, away from that bouncy floor that the speakers are sitting on.

I even went as far as putting the turntable in another room. It then went effortlessly loud without distortion.

[tlscapital]

I used to have the Thorens TD160 along with a few other turntables. And like you, I fiddled with damping sponges and all that stuff. I think I even tried rubbery carbody underseal on the lively metal chassis.

Motor rumble coming through the speakers was always a constant.

The main problem was always acoustic and footfall feedback to the tonearm, especially bass. Plastic lids and mounting on massive slabs made it variously better or worse.

But the best trick was to mount the turntable and even the amplification on shelves screwed to the wall, away from that bouncy floor that the speakers are sitting on.

I even went as far as putting the turntable in another room. It then went effortlessly loud without distortion.

Hi Steve, YES and yes again. Bit by bit, with time, work, effort, understanding and experimenting, I'm doing almost all those step by step. I already have my "tailor" made phono wood "cabinet" standing on metal feet. Now, I have a "tailor" made heavy-duty steel wall mount in the final stage of it's making to receive the phono "cabinet" on. This will be installed in my music room soon to be (45 meter square !) also in it's final stage. It's in the basement (already mechanically ventilated) totally sound proof (double layer of wall and ceiling with air gap) and isolated sonically à la British covered with recycled industrial "event" carpet on walls and ceiling and a linoleum floor. A delight for sour eyes and ears. All sound adjustment will be made with furnitures and panels if needed to be. The speakers will be sitting on solid fixed stands with some layers of marble plate on top of them. Distance between the speakers on phono will be 5 meters in an equilateral triangle position. I'll report when I'm there. Cheers, Tim