How to achieve soundstage depth

[petrat]

Good point, Richard. In both the systems where I've heard the effect in extremis, the speakers were really wide apart (Audio Physic style). They were also playing really loud. In a big room. With superbly-recorded material.

BTW, another good track for this is Tin Pan Alley by Stevie Ray Vaughan. Drummer is miles back.

[Sherwood]

My system is pretty holographic. My point is the sound I "hear" from the middle of the speakers doesnt come from the middle of the speakers. It comes from the right speaker, and the left speaker and arrives at my right ear and left ear at slightly different times, and my brain constructs an image from what it hears that is wrong. If my brain was any good it would hear a sound from speaker A, and a sound from speaker B and know full bloody well that nothing was coming out of point C in the middle of them. Partly that illusion is about how well the trick works for you.

Its not that different to 3d cinema. As someone who has only one functioning eye I can promise you that you can have the best video equipment and recording in the world and I won't see a 3D image.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXypyrutq_M

[walpurgis]

This thread has reminded me of an incident back in the 80's. I was re-arranging my hifi layout and (lazily) trying to reconnect a pair of speakers with my amp in situ. By mistake (AND DO NOT DO THIS YOURSELF) I connected the first pair of speakers across the two +ve terminals. I was playing a Carly Simon LP at the time and was astounded at the sound that emerged. Since it was playing the difference between the two stereo tracks, the main part of the track was cancelled out and in it's place the backing vocals took prominence with James Taylor sounding as if he was at the end of a tunnel. I played another dozen or so albums and found the effect was inconsistent but in general was most pronounced on naturally recorded albums with a good (wide and deep) sound stage. I wonder if this is linked to spatial imaging in some way?

Geoff

What you had in fact achieved there was a form of the pseudo quadraphonic Hafler circuit for speakers, albeit with your speakers at the front. This used the out of phase information on recordings to add an ambience to the sound. Done right, with high impedance drivers, it was quite effective.



As shown, this best tried only with common neg amps and the impedance has to be considered. I used to do it just with 16 ohm tweeters at the rear, coupled by series capacitors and with commoned negs going to amp neg via a pot. Tweeters work fine on their own at the rear, as they provide most of the directional and ambient information.

[alphaGT]

I've heard this effect from electrostatic speakers best. A friend's pair of Martin Logan Sequels had it in spades! All the time, from every seat in the room. Although his ancillary equipment was top of the line, I'm sure that helped. For my own system, I've had trouble capturing that effect, I believe my speakers are too far apart, for the distance of my listening position. But where I used to live I had a fairly modest system and could find that moment of sweetness when the walls of the room would disappear. One recording that was almost artificially creating the effect was Dire Straights, Brothers in Arms. Air in the recording was huge! But most of all I attribute the effect to a nice beer, or red wine. A little something to help make that leap of faith, that could transport you to the venue.


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[Sherwood]

What you had in fact achieved there was a form of the pseudo quadraphonic Hafler circuit for speakers, albeit with your speakers at the front. This used the out of phase information on recordings to add an ambience to the sound. Done right, with high impedance drivers, it was quite effective.



As shown, this best tried only with common neg amps and the impedance has to be considered. I used to do it just with 16 ohm tweeters at the rear, coupled by series capacitors and with commoned negs going to amp neg via a pot. Tweeters work fine on their own at the rear, as they provide most of the directional and ambient information.

Thanks for explaining this. I had figured that what I was hearing was the difference between the two channels. On the track "You're so vain" James Taylor could be heard belting out his background parts (ooeer missus!). I could see that with a quad system it would be interesting. I think I will stay with 2 channels though!

Geoff