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Thread: Pros and cons of valve amps

  1. #1
    Join Date: May 2013

    Location: surrey, uk

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    I'm richard.

    Default Pros and cons of valve amps

    Have to be honest and say I haven't heard a valve amp for about 30 years. All my amps have been A/B Class, which has always suited the room acoustics and ease of speaker matching blah blah...

    Some people say valve or tube amps sound warm, while others descibe them as neutral. I've also read reviews where the overriding theme has been speaker compatibility.

    Discuss...
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  2. #2
    Join Date: Mar 2012

    Location: Gloucestershire

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    I'm Paul.

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    A valve amp and SS amp, if both are competently designed and rated for the speakers being driven should sound pretty similar. This thing about valve amps sounding "warm" mainly applies to designs which are outputting high distortion either by design or by default! (ie poorly designed and specified).

    Class A/B are the most common, in push-pull configuration. Advantages are that if well designed, distortion can be very low indeed and when overdriven some will clip more euphonically than a SS equivalent as distortion is often (but not always) even order. This can make a valve amp sound more meaty for it's rating than you might expect as it will drive into distortion sometimes without some people noticing.

    Personally, I've always preferred a well designed valve amp over a SS amp because to my ears, mid range purity of tone just seems "right" but it is highly design dependant and most valve amps are only as good as the output transformers and power supplies that they use. Good output transformers cost £££££'s so you'll rarely get something for nothing where valve amps are concerned and good ones come at a cost.

    SS amps can be made more cheaply, but generally, I think it's wise to over rate them to prevent ever running them into clipping which is bad for the health of the drive units, so if you have speakers that are say 87dB sensitive with a 6 Ohm load and the speaker manufacturer says "can be driven with amps of 50wpc or above" I'd double that and look for one that delivers 100wpc minimum.

    As for valve amps being speaker sensitive, you rate them accordingly for power output but also check that their output impedance is appropriate. It is no good buying a 15wpc Single Ended valve amp using zero negative feedback with an output impedance of say 3 to 4 Ohms (realistic) if you want to drive a speaker load which has an impedance profile resembling the Alps as the frequency response will swing with impedance. You need a low output impedance from a valve amp to have sufficient damping factor to control bass, not to deliver it (a common misconception is the SE valve amps don't "do" bass...they do and can go very low, but controlling that response depends entirely on the damping factor).

    There are good and bad examples of both. You pays your money etc etc...
    Last edited by Reffc; 21-01-2017 at 17:34.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    I'm Shaun.

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    From my own experience I cannot say that valve amps sound warm and cuddly as folk say they do. I have found that they have a distinct liquid purity and lack of graininess compared to trannies though. Big tranny amps though do slam and guts in the bass by the bucketload which none of my valve amps have ever done. However, I have found that valves do loads of slam in the midrange. I love the purity of their treble though, valves that is.

  4. #4
    Join Date: Dec 2015

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    I'm Adrian.

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    I agree with that last post - my Cary's certainly aren't warm and fuzzy and dont lack bass slam. For me there there's a musicality and purity with SE that SS just can't match. But the cons... All the above is dependent on design and valves used. But the biggest headache is the cost of retubing the things which can be ludicrously expensive if going the ELROG et al route. As someone said, you pays your money....

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  5. #5
    Join Date: Oct 2008

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    I'm Gary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by farflungstar View Post
    I agree with that last post - my Cary's certainly aren't warm and fuzzy and dont lack bass slam. For me there there's a musicality and purity with SE that SS just can't match. But the cons... All the above is dependent on design and valves used. But the biggest headache is the cost of retubing the things which can be ludicrously expensive if going the ELROG et al route. As someone said, you pays your money....

    Adey

    In perpetual pursuit.
    Hear you on the Elrogs...hoping mine dont need replaced for a LONG time!
    Its a SET power amp I have into a SS Pre and sounds good.

    No lack of deep bass or slam here, but with the lower powered valve amps you need careful speaker matching to get it to work.
    Last edited by Gazjam; 21-01-2017 at 20:33.
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  6. #6
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    The class of amp is completely independent of whether it is valve or SS... Valve amps are much more commonly class A than SS amps (SET's can only be class A) and especially when 50WPC ish or less. SS amps are rarely class A simply because it costs so much... when class A the £/W will be similar to that of a valve amp (as will the size, weight and heat produced!) and people kind of expect SS amps to be much cheaper, Watt for Watt, than a valve amp. This IMHO gives valve amps an "unfair" advantage and is what can sometimes hold back the performance of SS amps.
    I could go on all night here and make this the longest post on record in comparing and contrasting the damping factor, frequency response and distortion performance etc etc of valves V SS and all the factors that define the parameters... don't worry I won't!
    IMHO the best examples of valve and SS amps will sound pretty much the same in most areas but SS will always have an advantage in the bass due simply to the lack of an output transformer. I don't include SET's here as, whilst many people swear by them, they are intrinsically high distortion and poor damping factor (the latter due mainly to lack of feedback and the former partially) and this will give them the warm, lush sound they are known for and which many people love... but is ultimately a distortion and inaccuracy and so not as hi in fi as other types. The best SET I've personally heard BTW is Gazjams Long Dog Audio unit. See Lurcher (Nick) for one of these...
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  7. #7
    Join Date: Apr 2012

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    I'm Geoff.

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    I like and use both. Valve Class A or transistor Class A and I'm equally happy with either in the right context, depends largely on what speakers I'm using though. I certainly don't notice any lack of bottom end punch or grip from what are relatively low powered amps. I would definitely not call my rather obscure EL34 valve monos 'lush' sounding, a touch more euphonic than the SS perhaps, but not much in it.
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  8. #8
    Join Date: Oct 2012

    Location: NE England

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    I'm Jez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walpurgis View Post
    I like and use both. Valve Class A or transistor Class A and I'm equally happy with either in the right context, depends largely on what speakers I'm using though. I certainly don't notice any lack of bottom end punch or grip from what are relatively low powered amps. I would definitely not call my rather obscure EL34 valve monos 'lush' sounding, a touch more euphonic than the SS perhaps, but not much in it.
    Same here A valve amp certainly doesn't have to be lush sounding.. I've heard the odd one that sounds more "transistory" than most SS amps! In the case of SET's though they will intrinsically have around 5-10 times the distortion of a push pull amp and much of this even order (predominantly second in fact) and this will tend to give a "lush" "warm" effect to anything going through it. Also a valve amp can have superb bass but ultimately is held back here by the transformer. Not to say a valve amp with superb grip and punch cannot be as good as an average to good SS amp but ultimately the cards are all marked in favour of SS when it comes to bass
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  9. #9
    Join Date: Dec 2013

    Location: humberside

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    I'm mike.

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    i've never heard a valve amp, been tempted on occasion to buy one, but then backed off, partly because of price, but mostly due to lack of knowledge.
    i was looking at rogers cadet 3 amps until the price went a bit silly.
    they were going for about 150-200 quite regular on ebay,, getting a bit scarce now, and fetching nearly double.
    snooze you lose i guess.
    cheers
    Mike.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2012

    Location: Sunny Portsmouth

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    I'm TheMostHonestPersonYouWillMeet.

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    In my experience yes valve amps can indeed sound warm

    My 'warm' experiences with valve amps have been with an unmodified pair of Quad II's and with a Chinese Ming Da amp. Other than that the other valve amps I've had do not sound 'warm', just right to me

    I will try to list the 'non warm' sounding valve amps I've owned, these are the ones that I can remember

    Decware SE84
    Rogers E40a
    Chinese YAQIN MC-100B KT88 (not 'warm' sounding at all, quite 'sharp' and 'brittle' sounding to me)
    Audio Note Conqueror 300b
    Oto SE
    Meishu

    The above are in no particular order

    Colin has NVA monoblocls and NVA pre and whenever I listen to his system it sounds great, much punchier sounding and the bass it better than my own system but I still prefer my current SET amps sound

    I can't imagine that I will ever go back to ss as I have become so accustomed to the sound of my SET amps and find them the most pleasing sounding to me

    When I do listen to ss amps they seem to miss the 'character' and 'feeling' of good valve amps however that might be because I haven't listened to the 'right' ss amps

    Many many years ago I heard a very expensive system which included some huge Mark Levinson monoblocks and I was completely underwhelmed by the sound and this was probably the most expensive system I have ever heard

    However that is just my opinion and my experiences
    Bev


    Mark Levinson N°390s CD Through:Atlas Elektra XLR's To: Mark Levinson N°383 To: Magneplanar .7's

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