Expensive MC's, are they worth it?

[Mikeandvan]

I guess it could be said that as a MC cart, when taken reductio ad absurdum, is nothing more complicated than two small coils of wire being waggled in front of a magnet by a cantilever bearing a stylus at the far end.... As such, the innards of a £200 and £2000 example are virtually identical. I'm going to make a wild observation that there should be no reason that MC cart of "as good as it gets" quality could not be offered for sale at say £250... and that maybe cheaper, less competent examples are deliberately held back in their performance in order to give an upgrade path of increasing profitability for the manufacturers...

Look at the precision micro engineering involved in a laser pick up for a CD player or, identically, a £15 DVD drive and tell me that it is in any way less intricate or less difficult to manufacture than even a £2k MC cart... The difference being that probably 80% of the worlds population wants a DVD drive in their PC or DVD player for the telly and so the profit comes from the universal demand... The high end MC cart is easier to make but only maybe 1 in 100,000 people want one...

It would not surprise me if for big companies like Ortofon or Audio Technica if costs only say £10 to make a £200 cart and £20 to make a £2000 cart... and that the prices are entirely due to it being such a small market for such a niche product... I'll get my coat

Exactly, but then most audiophile equipment is vastly overpriced.

[Dubster68]

Exactly, but then most audiophile equipment is vastly overpriced.

Very much so.

[Infinitely Baffled]

I'm not saying that at 10k the law of diminishing returns doesn't kick in but the difference between an excellent mid priced cart at £800 and a excellent 3k cart is revelatory, in my experience.

Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

This point merits a remark. I personally don't have the sort of money to buy a £3000 cartridge, but even if I did, I'm not sure I would think it was money well spent. The reason is this: in my experience, no matter what upgrade you bring to your system and how successful it is, it only takes a very short while before you no longer notice it. I'm not saying you no longer enjoy it, just that it becomes an accepted part of the sound of your system. You like it, but, hey, it's your system - that's just the way it sounds! If you are listening to the music - as opposed to listening to your system - then once the jaw-dropping wonder of your new upgrade has passed, you're just enjoying the sound it makes. Same as you did after your last upgrade, and the one before etc. etc. It is arguable that your overall level of musical enjoyment has not increased.

I'm not advocating that we should all have stuck with our Garrard SP25 Mk4s with Goldring G800 cartridge, because there is no point in upgrading. But we just have to realise WHY we are upgrading. The very fact that we are passing our sad small lives in front of a computer screen contributing to this - admittedly very good - forum, already means that we are deeply into this pastime and very engaged with all the aspects of it. It is no longer simply a means of listening to and enjoying music. It has become an end in its own right. That's fine, and nothing to be ashamed of. Owning a Ferrari isn't about getting from A to B any more; it has become something else. And that, I suggest, is also true of our fascination with hi-fi equipment. We are listening to music beautifully reproduced, of course, but we are also feeding our hunger for the technical, aesthetic and, yes, status-recognition payback it provides. And I'm sure that's normal, fine and healthy, but it leads me to this conclusion: the answer to the OP's question - whether upgrading from MM to MC is worthwhile - is probably "no" from a listening-to-music point of view, but "yes, from a pride-of-possession and system enjoyment point of view.
IB.

[shire]

This point merits a remark. I personally don't have the sort of money to buy a £3000 cartridge, but even if I did, I'm not sure I would think it was money well spent. The reason is this: in my experience, no matter what upgrade you bring to your system and how successful it is, it only takes a very short while before you no longer notice it. I'm not saying you no longer enjoy it, just that it becomes an accepted part of the sound of your system. You like it, but, hey, it's your system - that's just the way it sounds! If you are listening to the music - as opposed to listening to your system - then once the jaw-dropping wonder of your new upgrade has passed, you're just enjoying the sound it makes. Same as you did after your last upgrade, and the one before etc. etc. It is arguable that your overall level of musical enjoyment has not increased.

I'm not advocating that we should all have stuck with our Garrard SP25 Mk4s with Goldring G800 cartridge, because there is no point in upgrading. But we just have to realise WHY we are upgrading. The very fact that we are passing our sad small lives in front of a computer screen contributing to this - admittedly very good - forum, already means that we are deeply into this pastime and very engaged with all the aspects of it. It is no longer simply a means of listening to and enjoying music. It has become an end in its own right. That's fine, and nothing to be ashamed of. Owning a Ferrari isn't about getting from A to B any more; it has become something else. And that, I suggest, is also true of our fascination with hi-fi equipment. We are listening to music beautifully reproduced, of course, but we are also feeding our hunger for the technical, aesthetic and, yes, status-recognition payback it provides. And I'm sure that's normal, fine and healthy, but it leads me to this conclusion: the answer to the OP's question - whether upgrading from MM to MC is worthwhile - is probably "no" from a listening-to-music point of view, but "yes, from a pride-of-possession and system enjoyment point of view.
IB.

spot on summing up

[AlfaGTV]

Great post IB! +1!

[Firebottle]

Good post Gary but I'm not sure of the 'overall level of musical enjoyment has not increased' bit.

I've heard a smattering of the 'lower' priced MCs now (under a grand) plus Ali's rather wonderful MC at twice that price.
But ... I think the enjoyment of the music is heightened when you find a cart that draws you into it, gives you the boogie factor to go with it.

Jimbo's M55/jico sas certainly has it, and so does the DL-103

[Mike Adams]

Whilst you may stop noticing the effect of new/better kit over time, you still hear its effect when reproducing music. Depending on what this is/how much closer to the real thing this puts you it may or my not be worth it...

There are some great value products out there and the 103 (ideally with some modifications) is definitely one of them. Obviously the market for £3k+ MCs is so limited so its also true that the value of these is more questionable, but if the rest of your system is finalised and of a standard to do justice to this, then it may well be worth it.

[farflungstar]

Obviously the performance of a Ferrari can't be compared with a Vauxhall Astra, from a performance, handling, satisfaction viewpoint. I agree that novelty wears off but it depends on whether you're truly satisfied with the sound being produced and your reasons for upgrading.

My philosophy is simple - use the best cart you can afford to pull out the music then use components to amplify it as purely as possible.

My reasons for upgrading are not driven by dissatisfaction or status - but by logical and incremental steps that take me closer to purity and therefore the musical experience. Which is the point I think.
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[sq225917]

High end carts are all hand made, only the body tends to be made by machine, but its all hand assembled, tested and tweaked. A Benz l.p. With boron canti, ruby cross coil former and cyber 2 line contact can't really be compared with a denon 103 that contains no exotic nowt.

Line contact styli are 20x the price of sphericals. I agree there's an awful lot of margin in a 3k mc, probably 2.5k off and various hands in the supply chain.

I favour the best2nd hand cart you can afford. Then get it rebuilt.

[Infinitely Baffled]

My reasons for upgrading are not driven by dissatisfaction.

This is my point exactly. We upgrade even though we are not in any way dissatisfied with our actual experience of listening to music.

However much money we have spent on our kit, we all know that there is something out there that will improve on its performance - that's a given. And it is that thought that gets us wanting to change and upgrade something. In other words we are upgrading our system (and I don't dispute that objectively it will probably sound better after the upgrade) but not necessarily upgrading our subjective listening satisfaction.

As I said in my earlier post, that's fine. They are two different things: the pleasure we get from our music (which is purely emotional) and the pleasure that we get from our system (which is tactile, aesthetic, personally emotionally reassuring and probably more besides). There is no reason why we shouldn't have and enjoy both things. It's allowed. But I still think they are two separate things and it helps (me, at least) to recognize that.
IB.