Do I 'up' my turntable budget?

[montesquieu]

I would say idlers all the way - I see the attraction of DDs but they leave me a bit cold for the most part.

Cheapest is a Lenco project. If low budget get a Lenco GL75. New v-blocks and it performs far better than it looks. Change the arm when you have funds. Then Re-plinth or dismantle and built into a PTP project. Or if like me you aren't big on DIY, ones other people have done come up regularly on the Lenco foum usually for less than the cost of the bits.

Alternatively, a bit more cash gets a Garrard 401 ... if it was a modern turntable would literally cost thousands. My favourite idler is the Thorens TD124 but harder to get a good one than it is to get a decent Garrard. With either, you have a ton of plinth and arm options to suit.

[walpurgis]

Having owned several Garrards, I'd say nice as they can be, I prefer the sound of the G88 and G99 Goldring (Lenco) idlers. Suitably plinthed of course.

Mind you. Having been comparatively cheap, the G88 and G99 are now progessively catching the Garrards up in asking prices.

The GL75 and GL78 can also be brought up to a fine standard of sound quality.

[Arkless Electronics]

indeed, for the money they are excellent value. I believe they basically were sold at a loss initially; certainly little profit. My thorens (which was heavily modded)was excellent as many can attest and perhaps had it over the slatedeck on resolution, and was better with a good mc, but think the slate has a bit more drive if thats the right word. My main reason for change was for stability, as Im getting pretty shakey at times due to being fcuk-ed I had a hard paper round

Technics motor were they not? Yeah I guess resolution and retrieval of fine detail and spacial information is where it's at for me and this is where I reckon SSBD's excel. "Drive", "pace" etc are not very important to me... I'll probably end up flogging the Lenco before I ever try it out to be honest. I did try it briefly once with a unipivot arm years ago but it was worse than dire... far worse than even a Garrard SP25 in every respect and rumbled like an approaching washing machine! I have serviced it just recently (I was going to "put it on the road" on a whim. It didn't happen) and found the main bearing appeared completely dry and so I lubed it with grease, which made it feel much smoother in rotation. I heard a GL75 sounding good at an early NEBO but generally I would have to say I am unimpressed with idler drive decks... and I've spent many hours with (bog standard) Garrard 301's and 401's in the past... Horses for courses and no good if we were all the same etc.... Tom, and Andrew (Rexton), and many others, swear by them!

[farflungstar]

I didn't think I would find myself disagreeing with Tom but I wouldn't swap my Technics SP10 for an idler and a wad of cash thrown in. Well, I might try a 401 as a second deck in the future but I'd avoid Lenco like the plague if you don't want to be faffing about and spending a fortune on fitting it out right and then still be at the mercy of wobbly platters and springs that end up tied with elastic. I spent 2 years chasing that dream.

A good example of an SP10 mk2 isn't cheap but it's a doddle to plinth and is easily serviced by a competent electrician. It's also very highly regarded and sought after.

If I had to go belt drive I'd go for a Townsend Rock - but again my experiences with belt drive have been hit and miss. The worst was the original Pink Triangle - performance changed depending on the phase of the moon.

Just my opinion.

Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[struth]

Technics motor were they not? Yeah I guess resolution and retrieval of fine detail and spacial information is where it's at for me and this is where I reckon SSBD's excel. "Drive", "pace" etc are not very important to me... I'll probably end up flogging the Lenco before I ever try it out to be honest. I did try it briefly once with a unipivot arm years ago but it was worse than dire... far worse than even a Garrard SP25 in every respect and rumbled like an approaching washing machine! I have serviced it just recently (I was going to "put it on the road" on a whim. It didn't happen) and found the main bearing appeared completely dry and so I lubed it with grease, which made it feel much smoother in rotation. I heard a GL75 sounding good at an early NEBO but generally I would have to say I am unimpressed with idler drive decks... and I've spent many hours with (bog standard) Garrard 301's and 401's in the past... Horses for courses and no good if we were all the same etc.... Tom, and Andrew (Rexton), and many others, swear by them!

2000 series brushless DC motor i think . Not much torque but its pretty accurate and smooth, and gets up to speed quickly enough without sprinting. does me as it is rock solid physically so doesnt get affected by my stablising myself on the unit or the tt itself. Its also one of the prettiest imv. Great feet on it.

[montesquieu]

I didn't think I would find myself disagreeing with Tom but I wouldn't swap my Technics SP10 for an idler and a wad of cash thrown in. Well, I might try a 401 as a second deck in the future but I'd avoid Lenco like the plague if you don't want to be faffing about and spending a fortune on fitting it out right and then still be at the mercy of wobbly platters and springs that end up tied with elastic. I spent 2 years chasing that dream.

A good example of an SP10 mk2 isn't cheap but it's a doddle to plinth and is easily serviced by a competent electrician. It's also very highly regarded and sought after.

If I had to go belt drive I'd go for a Townsend Rock - but again my experiences with belt drive have been hit and miss. The worst was the original Pink Triangle - performance changed depending on the phase of the moon.

Just my opinion.

Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

SP10 is my favourite DD as it happens ....!

I avoid belt drive decks these days. Agree Townshend right up there if that's the direction you are going (I had a II and a Rock Reference), but I have perfect pitch and after years of idlers can't deal any more with the speed wobble many belt drives make (even the Voyd 3-motor job that I had for a while) - it's just too noticable. Though strangely before I bought my first idler (a Garrard) I didn't hear it.

[Infinitely Baffled]

No-one has mentioned Nottingham Analogue, which is a surprise.
I have had lots of use - all highly satisfactory - from various models, all of them unsuspended belt-drive types. Classy-looking, beautifully made, easy as pie to set-up, and they play wonderfully well with unipivot arms.
IB

[Arkless Electronics]

2000 series brushless DC motor i think . Not much torque but its pretty accurate and smooth, and gets up to speed quickly enough without sprinting. does me as it is rock solid physically so doesnt get affected by my stablising myself on the unit or the tt itself. Its also one of the prettiest imv. Great feet on it.

Yeah huge chunky plastic knurled feet! What arm do you use on it? I've mostly seen them with SME 3009's of either series 2 or 3, both of which I've owned and both of which were flogged on quickly after listening to them! They look lovely though!

[Arkless Electronics]

SP10 is my favourite DD as it happens ....!

I avoid belt drive decks these days. Agree Townshend right up there if that's the direction you are going (I had a II and a Rock Reference), but I have perfect pitch and after years of idlers can't deal any more with the speed wobble many belt drives make (even the Voyd 3-motor job that I had for a while) - it's just too noticable. Though strangely before I bought my first idler (a Garrard) I didn't hear it.

Yeah I can go with that to some degree... I am also very sensitive to speed instability and sometimes, if I consciously think about it, can hear it a slight bit on BD decks and found the total speed accuracy of my SL-150 MkII very nice in comparison. I will fix the Technics some day... I have a Studer R2R with a flutter issue which it seems no one but me can hear (out of 3 mates who listened anyway). I find it bad enough to render it unusable!

[farflungstar]

SP10 is my favourite DD as it happens ....!

I avoid belt drive decks these days. Agree Townshend right up there if that's the direction you are going (I had a II and a Rock Reference), but I have perfect pitch and after years of idlers can't deal any more with the speed wobble many belt drives make (even the Voyd 3-motor job that I had for a while) - it's just too noticable. Though strangely before I bought my first idler (a Garrard) I didn't hear it.

That's why I wouldn't consider a belt drive these days. Bits of rubber have a habit of changing elasticity depending on temperature or age and just a slight drift in speed control leads to smearing of leading edges. Likewise pitch can suffer, especially noticeable on piano decay. The Nottingham get around this with huge platters whose inertia supposedly overcomes it, but not quite as well a precision control DD and I'm sure a well fettled Idler.
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.