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Thread: Analogue Floyd

  1. #1
    Join Date: Dec 2008

    Location: East Riding of Yorkshire these days

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    I'm Shaun.

    Default Analogue Floyd

    OK, was up really early this morning so decided to listen to The Dark Side Of The Moon on vinyl using the Stanton ST.150 with Benz Micro Silver HOMC into a Project DS phono stage with QED Reference 40 interconnects. Now listening to 'On The Run' I noticed a lot of very low frequency bass that just shimmers very low to the floor. Got to admit I love this low frequency stuff so I kind of thought, wonder how good this is on the CD...?

    So, Marantz CD player as transport into an updated Audiolab M-DAC into the Prima Luna preamp via Atlas Hyper interconnects. Playing the SACD reissue from a few years back that very low resonant bass was completely missing. There wasn't even a trace of it. Once again this has left me wondering whether, during the remaster, this was omitted on purpose...? If so, why the hell would they...?

    There is, in my system, a clear difference between vinyl and CD showing that some of the audible spectrum is simply not there. I do understand though that this could be really showing the difference between differing versions of the same album. I think this needs further investigation within my own system

  2. #2
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    Unlikely it is the mastering. The thing with vinyl is that, like the Lord, it both addeth and taketh away. I'd be inclined to suspect acoustic feedback as the culprit.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  3. #3
    Join Date: Jan 2013

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    I'm James.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haselsh1 View Post
    OK, was up really early this morning so decided to listen to The Dark Side Of The Moon on vinyl using the Stanton ST.150 with Benz Micro Silver HOMC into a Project DS phono stage with QED Reference 40 interconnects. Now listening to 'On The Run' I noticed a lot of very low frequency bass that just shimmers very low to the floor. Got to admit I love this low frequency stuff so I kind of thought, wonder how good this is on the CD...?

    So, Marantz CD player as transport into an updated Audiolab M-DAC into the Prima Luna preamp via Atlas Hyper interconnects. Playing the SACD reissue from a few years back that very low resonant bass was completely missing. There wasn't even a trace of it. Once again this has left me wondering whether, during the remaster, this was omitted on purpose...? If so, why the hell would they...?

    There is, in my system, a clear difference between vinyl and CD showing that some of the audible spectrum is simply not there. I do understand though that this could be really showing the difference between differing versions of the same album. I think this needs further investigation within my own system
    A lot of folks listening in the digital world are missing a lot more than that Shaun. You are correct it is the mastering at fault not acoustic feedback

    I did a little experiment over Christmas with Pink Floyds The Wall. I have an early original pressing on vinyl so I was keen to listen to my friends 16bit and 24bit mastered versions via a ruthlessly revealing digital set up. The 16 bit version sounded washed out and a bit thin but to my surprise and horror the 24bit version sounded flat as a pancake and worse!!
    The vinyl sounded full bloodied,fat, rich analog with a depth to the bass the digital version completely lacked.

    So rather than read or imagine what is going on I actually heard it. There is so much crap out there regarding digital audio,especially hi Rez stuff if you actually get to hear some of it as I do often the truth is brutally revealed.

    Simply, if stuff is mastered crap you get crap.If it is mastered well on digital it can be awesome!

    Digital and Hi Rez is in no way a guarantee you are going to get great stuff and in my experience is often so disappointing compared to vinyl warts and all.

    I hear folk bang on about the technical ability and wide dynamic range digital has but this often does not translate into the listening experience as you found out with DSOTM.
    Main system : VPI Scout 1.1 / JMW 9T / 2M Black / Croft 25R+ / Croft 7 / Heco Celan GT 702

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  4. #4
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    Hard to accept that the SACD of DSOTM is badly mastered to the extent that bass frequencies are just 'missing'. I grant you that some of the re-mastering done to make 'hi rez' seem worthwhile is not an improvement. The DVD-A of Sinatra Live At The Sands is a huge disappointment, for example. And vinyl is always going to sound different in the bass since it is mono below 100 Hz, this will subjectively increase the amount and the presence of the bass. Acoustic feedback will also do this. Try putting the TT in a separate room from the speakers and see what happens then.

    And that is before we get into the vagaries of the cartridge. I have several Stantons, great fun but not neutral, especially not in the bass.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

  5. #5
    Join Date: Feb 2013

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    I'm Grant.

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    I did a listen test as did a few others, a year or so back re dsotm. Sacd, older cd and an oldish vinyl. Vinyl won hands down, and sacd was classed last by a distance. Wasnt expected but true. Even the cd layer of sacd is piss poor.
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  6. #6
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Thanks for your comments guys, I am now going to go and refit my old Ortofon OM40 and try the vinyl DSOTM all over again. I maybe some time....

  7. #7
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Well, what a bloody revelation...!

    Firstly mainly technical differences with the two carts. Tracking of the Ortofon is audibly superior at the recommended force. Stereo imaging is just so precise and separated from each side but most of all, the OM40 is just so relaxed and easy to listen to. The Benz Silver gives the impression of more detail because it is much brighter and more forward but for me the OM40 just suits Floyd music so well. Now during the 'On The Run' track, that really low bass is still there but with masses of presence. In fact, the stereo is quite scarily real as that bass now rolls around the floor just to the left of the left side of the sofa on which I am sitting. The Benz Silver only hinted at this.

    I have been using the Benz Silver for over a year now and I have grown used to it but the OM40 has shown itself to be a very different sounding cart. Yes I could say it is massively better but it isn't, it is massively different. At the moment I prefer the sound of the OM40 which, when you get used to listening to it, shows a whole load of audible stuff the Benz Silver almost covers up. One thing that is for definite in my system; the SACD of DSOTM is a pretty poor representation of the original master. I also have an old non barcoded version of DSOTM. That may be an interesting listen.

  8. #8
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Years ago to test for feedback we would put the stylus on the runout groove and tap the turntable sharply with the volume at normal listening. If there was any feedback, it would be bloody obvious really quickly. I still do that test even forty years later and I have no kind of feedback within my current system

  9. #9
    Join Date: Dec 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I did a little experiment over Christmas with Pink Floyds The Wall.
    Interesting, I also have an eighties pressing of the Wall. I also have a new remaster of WYWH. I feel a big Floyd session coming on.

  10. #10
    Join Date: Aug 2009

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    I'm Martin.

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    That isn't the same thing. Acoustic feedback from a turntable in inevitable, unless the TT is isolated from the room. It's an open loop, unlike digital. That it is perceived as an enhancement doesn't mean that it is not happening. It will make playback seem more 'awesome' compared to a digital version, especially with rock music.
    Current Lash Up:

    TEAC VRDS 701T > Sony TAE1000ESD > Krell KSA50S > JM Labs Focal Electra 926.

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