Wasn't gonna post this...

[Macca]

It's just that people say 'I know the difference was real because I swapped out new for old and everything was ruined', as if that 'proved' anything. It doesn't. (I should add that I don't do any of this swapping about malarkey myself being a lazy-arsed slacker).

It proves it for them, even if they didn't need convincing to begin with. There is far too much bollocks talked about expectation bias and placebo in hi-fi. It is the lazy man's answer to everything. I'm not saying they do not apply at all but their influence is way overstated.

[struth]

It's just that people say 'I know the difference was real because I swapped out new for old and everything was ruined', as if that 'proved' anything. It doesn't. (I should add that I don't do any of this swapping about malarkey myself being a lazy-arsed slacker).

Used to drink with a guy that liked a splash of lemonade in his lager.not much. If they got mixed i could try one then other then back to the first and get it right every time. Or am i just being gullible as the one i picked had more in it

[Joe]

It proves it for them, even if they didn't need convincing to begin with. There is far too much bollocks talked about expectation bias and placebo in hi-fi. It is the lazy man's answer to everything. I'm not saying they do not apply at all but their influence is way overstated.

And if they just want it 'proved for them', no probs. But if someone with a great deal of technical knowledge/experience of building stuff says 'that can't work, it's just not possible' then a bit of evidence by way of blind-testing goes a lot further than 'I heard it - are you calling me a liar' as a response in terms of moving the discussion along.

[Ali Tait]

Ali,

There's a fancy fuse in that MCRU Linear PSU you bought from me, or there should be, it was sold to me supposedly with one already fitted although I never checked.

Might be an idea for you to try it in something else, see if it does anything for your system.

Ok cheers, will give it a try at the weekend if I get time.

[Macca]

And if they just want it 'proved for them', no probs. But if someone with a great deal of technical knowledge/experience of building stuff says 'that can't work, it's just not possible' then a bit of evidence by way of blind-testing goes a lot further than 'I heard it - are you calling me a liar' as a response in terms of moving the discussion along.

No it doesn't, because if they can identify a difference in the test then the test methodology is called into question. You read PFM, you know how it goes.

That's why this is a subjectivist forum. So we don't have to go there. On the other hand I think that if someone posts that a ninety quid fuse gives a good uplift in sound quality then it is fair that questions are asked, if only because some people with 'a great deal of technical knowledge/experience of building stuff' says it can't be happening. Asking questions is not the same as calling someone a liar or claiming placebo. I'd be happier if the engineers had a listen for themselves and satisfied themselves there was no subjective difference. If they hear there is a difference then who better to look for the reason?

[Marco]

And if they just want it 'proved for them', no probs. But if someone with a great deal of technical knowledge/experience of building stuff says 'that can't work, it's just not possible' then a bit of evidence by way of blind-testing goes a lot further than 'I heard it - are you calling me a liar' as a response in terms of moving the discussion along.

Yes I guess that's fine, if you feel so inclined.

However, as long as no-one is saying what they've heard is FACT, but merely offering their subjective opinion (which is all I've seen here from the 'fuse believers', as it were), then there's no need for proof/evidence of anything, other than someone's word, which you can choose to believe or not - and least of all any expert coming along, psychoanalysing them and writing an essay on the gullibility of man!

It's that last bit that raises the heckles and is completely unnecessary and unwelcome.

I've said it before here many times, when commenting on what we've done with our hi-fi systems: we're not submitting a formal thesis for critical appraisal or entering a competition in a debating society; we're chatting informally amongst ourselves in a chilled-out and relaxed environment, much as if we were all together chewing the fat over a few beers in a pub. That's the vibe we have here on AoS.

So no-one gets any special Brownie Points for being right or wrong!

Marco.

[Marco]

Asking questions is not the same as calling someone a liar or claiming placebo.

Precisely, it's almost as if they take challenging their 'world view' or not accepting their scientific belief system as 'gospel', worse than someone insulting their mother! I simply *won't* have that here, as it's precisely why AoS was born in the first place: to create a safe haven away from that sort of divisive shit and ill-feeling.

If you enjoy that, and have a penchant for an endless circular argument, there's plenty of it on almost every other forum, so fill your boots.

Marco.

[Gazjam]

Questions are good, and always welcome.
other stuff...not so much.

[Marco]

Questions are good, and always welcome.
other stuff...not so much.

The problem is, Gary, some folk are so ignorant and divorced from social interaction with normal people, and more interested in winning arguments, scoring points and trying to be smart, that they completely lose sight of the fact that their behaviour spoils it for everyone else

And that's why the forums these folk run or are members of will never amount to anything worthwhile, much like them.

Also, what gets me is the arrogant and abrasive tone with which they address people, and obviously consider as normal. It just beggars belief, evidenced by the shocking treatment you were given on the midden, simply for relating to them what you'd discovered with a fuse... It doesn't matter how wrong you are about what you said (should that be the case), there is simply no need for such nastiness.

You wonder if they speak to their friends or partners that way, and if so, how they put up with it. I can tell you if anyone spoke to me like that in real life, with such patent rudeness and disrespect, regardless of anything else, they'd get a well deserved slap!!

I was brought up in an environment where people, by default, were treated with kindness and civility, no matter whether you disagreed with them on certain matters or not, and that's how I insist on living my life now. I have zero tolerance for those who, in that respect, appear to live on a different planet.

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

You can guarantee they would not dare to be so abrasive face to face..