Wasn't gonna post this...

[Marco]

Lol - are you sure they weren't these ones, from AMR, as that's one of the rooms we were in, listening to their equipment (they also make CDPs and amps, etc), and the rep was handing them out:

http://www.analogueseduction.net/amr-fuses.html

I agree that the AMRs were pretty ineffectual. I didn't hear much difference with those either. Fair enough if you don't rate the design of the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, or couldn't hear any difference if you tried one of those, too.

I certainly could, although the effect (improvement) was subtle - no 'night and day' transformations were experienced in that instance, but one of those 'icings on the cake' things, which was worthwhile. Anyway, feel free to give me yours if you don't want it (unless it's an AMR)

Marco.

[Spectral Morn]

Lol - are you sure they weren't these ones, from AMR, as that's one of the rooms we were in, listening to their equipment (they also make CDPs and amps, etc), and the rep was handing them out:

http://www.analogueseduction.net/amr-fuses.html

I agree that the AMRs were pretty ineffectual. I didn't hear much difference with those either. Fair enough if you don't rate the design of the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, or couldn't hear any difference if you tried one of those, too.

I certainly could, although the effect (improvement) was subtle - no 'night and day' transformations were experienced in that instance, but one of those 'icings on the cake' things, which was worthwhile. Anyway, feel free to give me yours if you don't want it (unless it's an AMR)

Marco.

It was AMR ones. I was given a few to do a write up but life circumstances got in the way and the cold hard reality of swapping fuses in and out of mains plugs killed me doing it.

[Barry]

No it was definitely a 'Hi Fi Tuning' fuse; I recognise the printing on the cartridge body. I mentioned the fuses to Mark Dolbear of the Highend Workshop a few years ago and he let me have a copy of a lab report commisioned by Hi Fi Tuning which was a set of comparative meaasurements of the fuse, along with other 'audiophile' types as well as standard ones.

I'll see if I can find it - I'm sure Jez would find it interesting! (IMO it is a very poor report with no statistical analysis and not surprisingly heavily biased towards the Hi Fi Tuning product.)

[The Black Adder]

If anyone has any of the plug tuning fuses knocking around not doing anything, I'd like to try them.

[Marco]

Ah ok, no worries. I think you'd also have been given some AMR ones at the show, as a freebie. I certainly was, so you might have some knocking about your spares box. They come in little black pouches.

Regardless of the measurements/report, or whatever, I'm happy that the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses are doing a good job in my system

Marco.

[Reffc]

I'll probably come in for a lot of stick for this, but here goes anyway:

• Fuses exist to protect the CABLE and NOT your kit. In the event of a major fault, they limit the number of Ampere's that can be drawn through your cable which might otherwise over-load it and cause a fire, by causing the fuse to blow instead. That's why it is NEVER recommended that you remove any fuses from any cable connected to the mains, and should there be a fire and you have tampered with them, I'm sure that most insurance companies would want to know why and would probably refuse to pay out should your house burn down (yes, they do check the fire officer's reports on these things and yes, a tampered with or bypassed fuse can be identified);
• To the big elephant in the room, which has been quietly sat in the corner with no one noticing: The fuses mentioned in the last link to the Ebay "tuning fuses" contains claims which are barely credible, such as "...these cheap, glass-body fuses are a "weak link" in your signal path...". Mains fuses ARE NOT IN THE SIGNAL PATH. Claims that they somehow magically "filter" the mains are frankly incredible. Where is this filtering circuit? Is it in miniature within the fuse? What is this "mains resonance" they speak of? (granted that some circuits can be electrically resonant but that points more often to a specific set of electrical issues which can be described within a signal circuit. The use of the term here serves only to reinforce the technical pseudo-science babble nonsense being spouted....oh....imho ). The cheap glass bodied fuses are cheap for a reason. They cost peanuts to produce and do a perfectly good job. They're the one's protecting your kit by the way, not the ones in the mains plug. They are also designed around a set down set of criteria and all do essentially the same job, whether slow blow (time dependant) or quick blow. the "T" fuses are designed to sustain a high inrush current for a prescribed time after which they'll blow. They will eventually pop anyway, so it's sensible to replace them every year or two;
• In relation to "T" fuses, perhaps some of the perceived issues are around comparisons of a "worn" T fuse which may have waisted a little through heat over a number of cycles, so by changing old ones for nice shiny new ones for about 40p each or whatever, you'll probably get the exact same result as putting a shiny new "tuning" fuse in and paying £30 upwards for the privilege. Out of interest, has anyone tried this comparison?
• How can a fuse cure "mains noise" when this is actually the job of your connected kit's power supply, which, by the way, has been engineered (in most cases) by competent and capable audio engineers to filter things like spurious mains noise and RFI out from the incoming supply?
• Here, yet again, we see the mythical qualities of Silver being used. Can anyone answer just why silver makes a better fuse than copper, or pig iron, or steel, or tungston, or.....Surely the only qualities that matter are that if sustaining an overcurrent for a prescribed period of time, the fuse must melt and "blow". Yes, there is a clearly prescribed period defined in legislation.

I'd like to say that whilst I do have a very open mind when it comes to hifi in general, I draw the line at mains fuses.

I am not decrying the experiences of others, as suggestion is a powerful (and actually quite an understood) phenomena, so if people feel better about being relieved of their hard earned for some of these trinkets, then so be it, and enjoy. Most cases, the perceived improvements could probably be obtained by cleaning your plug/fuse contacts and re-assembling, or by renewing your "T" fuses every so often as, just like light bulbs, they have a finite lifespan.

[Spectral Morn]

I'll probably come in for a lot of stick for this, but here goes anyway:

• Fuses exist to protect the CABLE and NOT your kit. In the event of a major fault, they limit the number of Ampere's that can be drawn through your cable which might otherwise over-load it and cause a fire, by causing the fuse to blow instead. That's why it is NEVER recommended that you remove any fuses from any cable connected to the mains, and should there be a fire and you have tampered with them, I'm sure that most insurance companies would want to know why and would probably refuse to pay out should your house burn down (yes, they do check the fire officer's reports on these things and yes, a tampered with or bypassed fuse can be identified);
• To the big elephant in the room, which has been quietly sat in the corner with no one noticing: The fuses mentioned in the last link to the Ebay "tuning fuses" contains claims which are barely credible, such as "...these cheap, glass-body fuses are a "weak link" in your signal path...". Mains fuses ARE NOT IN THE SIGNAL PATH. Claims that they somehow magically "filter" the mains are frankly incredible. Where is this filtering circuit? Is in in miniature within the fuse? What is this "mains resonance" they speak of? (granted that some circuits can be electrically resonant but that points more often to a specific set of electrical issues which can be described within a circuit. The use of the term here serves only to reinforce the technichal psuedo-science babble nonsense being spouted....oh....imho )
• How can a fuse cure "mains noise" when this is actually the job of your connected kit's power supply, which, by the way, has been engineered (in most cases) by competent and capable audio engineers to filter things like spurious mains noise and RFI out from the incoming supply?
• Here, yet again, we see the mythical qualities of Silver being used. Can anyone answer just why silver makes a better fuse than copper, or pig iron, or steel, or tungston, or.....Surely the only qualities that matter are that if sustaining an overcurrent for a prescribed period of time, the fuse must melt and "blow". Yes, there is a clearly prescribed period defined in legislation.

I'd like to say that whilst I do have a very open mind when it comes to hifi in general, I draw the line at mains fuses.

I am not decrying the experiences of others, as suggestion is a powerful (and actually quite an understood) phenomena, so if people feel better about being relieved of their hard earned for some of these trinkets, then so be it, and enjoy. Most cases, the perceived improvements could probably be obtained by cleaning your plug/fuse contacts and re-assembling, no?

See there you go, placebo again . If folks approach this and are sceptical, hostile even then their expectation bias is to the negative not the positive. What about when they hear improvements. Folks using words like placebo, etc gets me rather irritated. They were not in the room and didn't hear what folks like Gary have, so how dare they ridicule folks genuine listening experiences.

[Marco]

Most cases, the perceived improvements could probably be obtained by cleaning your plug/fuse contacts and re-assembling, or by renewing your "T" fuses every so often as, just like light bulbs, they have a finite lifespan.

That's already been done by most of us, Paul, and improvements were heard, as one would expect. However, some of the 'audiophile fuses' we've tried take things a step further again, sonically. All fair points you've made above though, and it's always good for someone to add some balance, critically, but in a polite and constructive way.

When I tried the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses some years ago, I tested them thoroughly, over a period of weeks of using them, then taking them out and going back to standard fuses (returning to a known reference, IME, always reveals when something 'works' or not) - and every time I returned to using standard fuses, the sound quality of my system took a dip, simply in terms of a *slight* graininess/opaque quality being superimposed over proceedings, which was absent with the HFT fuses in circuit.

I would stress that the improvement was of the subtle variety, and certainly not 'earth shattering', but once you'd heard it, it was significant enough that you wouldn't want to go back to how things were before.

After the results of testing the HFT fuses were (for me) conclusive, it was enough to make me buy some more to use elsewhere, and I've been using them happily in my system ever since. Whilst I appreciate that the science behind these fuses is dodgy, and wouldn't attempt to make any claims to the contrary, in the final analysis I'm happy to trust my ears, after satisfying my own judgment criteria, as indeed I do with everything else I choose to use in my system

Marco.

[Reffc]

See there you go, placebo again . If folks approach this and are sceptical, hostile even then their expectation bias is to the negative not the positive. What about when they hear improvements. Folks using words like placebo, etc gets me rather irritated. They were not in the room and didn't hear what folks like Gary have, so how dare they ridicule folks genuine listening experiences.

I believe that I have answered that, and have been anything but hostile Neil. Get irritated if you wish, but one opinion is just as valid as another and I haven't decried anyone's listening experiences at all it is just this type of arrogant response that gets me irritated, when there can be no tolerance at all of a rational and enquiring approach based on something more than a belief system. With that, I'll bow out of this one straight away. (ok, after addressing Marco's response) You may wish to re-read what my edited posting actually says rather than jumping in with such hostility so quickly. It's only hifi for goodness sake! There's more important things going on in the world at present to get angry over.

[Reffc]

That's already been done by most of us, Paul, and improvements were heard, as one would expect. However, some of the 'audiophile fuses' we've tried take things a step further sonically.

All fair point you've made above, and it's always good for someone to add some balance, in a polite and constructive way.

However, when I tried the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses some years ago, I tested them thoroughly, over a period of weeks, using them, then taking them out and going back standard fuses (returning to a known reference, IME, always reveals when something 'works' or not - and every time I returned to using standard fuses, the sound quality of my system took a dip, simply in terms of a *slight* graininess/opaque quality being superimposed over proceedings, which was absent with the HFT fuses in circuit.

After the results of said testing were (for me) conclusive, it was enough to make me buy some more to use elsewhere, and I've been using them happily in my system ever since. Whilst I appreciate that the science behind these fuses is dodgy, and wouldn't attempt to make any claims to the contrary, in the final analysis I'm happy to trust my ears, after satisfying my own judgment criteria, as indeed I do with everything else I choose to use in my system

Marco.

That's fair enough Marco. As I said in my first post, I am not decrying the experiences of others, just trying to approach with a more enquiring mind than some would allow.

I have to say Marco, and this is definitely not aimed at you or what you've posted, but it is noticed by a few of us and a little objectionable how recently, if anyone from the engineering community who has a stake in actually designing or making things posts, even in a polite way, they are instantly slapped down by some with unpleasantness as if we are to be kept in a box under control.

This isn't George Orwell's 1984, so if such people would like to take their aggression out somewhere else, that would be appreciated. Otherwise, I can assure you, there will be some trades people on here walking away or just not contributing any more. Andrew, Jez, and myself have come in for more than enough stick lately, but between us, we do have a smattering of knowledge. It seems that when we try and share any of it, or offer our own opinions based on experience, someone stamps on it rather quickly.

I do try being empathetic and polite with posts, but I'm wired up to approach things differently than many on AoS. Now we are all tying to arrive that the same place, but often our paths are blocked so a different route is called for. All I (and the others) try to do is to offer that other route, if that makes sense?