Wasn't gonna post this...

[RothwellAudio]

...My circuit design strives to achieve the best clarity possible and to reduce as much as possible the effects of different components.

I can relate to this. Yes, making the circuit better is a sensible goal. Giving a circuit a "voice" is more like voodoo.

[Light Dependant Resistor]

I think what Marco is suggesting is that amplifier designers can choose a variety of components, valves, mosfets, fets, capacitors etc which will all influence the final sound 'voice' of the amplifier. Apart from the electrical specification a component has consideration of its sonic signature is surely a prerequisite in designing an audio component?

Very much so. Well done ! Listening is at the top of the ladder in building a good circuit, as is good knowledge of components
and knowing how each one sounds related to each part of the design. Accompanying this is a good knowledge of how live music sounds
and knowledge of music in its many forms.

Cheers / Chris

[Light Dependant Resistor]

No, I don't think so - audio components don't have a sonic signature. For example, what is the sound of a transistor? As far as my approach goes, it doesn't have a sound because it cannot even function in isolation. Unless it's in a circuit it won't even work at all, let alone display any sonic signature.
Things like carbon comp resistors could be said to have a sonic signature but in reality it's just poor performance rather than a useful characteristic.

You have a lot to learn, for instance common base vs common emitter and common collector - all sound different when correctly placed
per their electrical requirements in a circuit. Yet they are all transistors in this case used in different ways

Similarly the fet and mosfet equivalents all sound different. As do operational amplifiers as do valves, as does basically everything.
The ability to then hear for instance how a common emitter sounds with a well chosen miller capacitor vs a mosfet with miller capacitance already provided
in its construction is an example. Also hearing what value of Miller cap sounds best vs what a scope shows - hopefully you are starting to see that components
are critical, as is listening and measuring.

[Marco]

I think what Marco is suggesting is that amplifier designers can choose a variety of components, valves, mosfets, fets, capacitors etc which will all influence the final sound 'voice' of the amplifier. Apart from the electrical specification a component has consideration of its sonic signature is surely a prerequisite in designing an audio component?

Indeed....

Surely every competent audio designer, after a product has passed their 'bench test', and measured within accepted parameters, will still listen to said component, in the context of a known test system, and ascertain whether the sonic result obtained is acceptable?

If it measures superbly, yet sounds disappointing or not quite right, what should a good designer do, simply say: 'Feck it, I'll sell this regardless, as my ears must be deceiving me'? I don't think so!

A competent designer, with pride in his product and who seeks for it to achieve the best possible performance, will fine-tune, i.e. 'voice' the final circuit, perhaps by changing a capacitor and/or resistor, here or there, then measure and listen again, until he is satisfied that the final product not only measures well, but *sounds* good (read as satisfies what his ears tell him best replicates that of real instruments and voices).

*That* is how the best equipment is built, and it's no accident, therefore, that the finest sounding equipment out there is often produced by the designers who get that last bit right the most!

Quite simply, it's that final 'fine-tuning' which can be the difference between creating merely a mediocre product, or a great one - and chances are, said adjustment will have little or no impact on the product's technical performance/spec, simply because it's likely that whilst a simple cap or resistor change can effect a noticeable difference in sound quality, the product will still measure the same, which is why (as I was saying yesterday to Macca), using technical specs to determine how something will sound is not the best way of achieving any form of certainty in that respect.

If the term 'voicing' offends you, then simply replace it with 'fine-tuning'. 'Voicing' is used to indicate where human input has taken place, during the design of any equipment, which results in elevating its performance beyond what was attainable via measurement alone.

The fact is, we cannot currently measure everything that we can genuinely hear, so it is vital that ears are used as the final arbiter in the design of any good equipment.

Marco.

[RothwellAudio]

You have a lot to learn, for instance common base vs common emitter and common collector - all sound different when correctly placed
per their electrical requirements in a circuit. Yet they are all transistors in this case used in different ways

Similarly the fet and mosfet equivalents all sound different. As do operational amplifiers as do valves, as does basically everything.
The ability to then hear for instance how a common emitter sounds with a well chosen miller capacitor vs a mosfet with miller capacitance already provided
in its construction is an example. Also hearing what value of Miller cap sounds best vs what a scope shows - hopefully you are starting to see that components
are critical, as is listening and measuring.

Thanks for being so patronising - made my day.

[Macca]

At one of the NEBOs Les from Avondale gave a little talk where he explained how he 'voiced' (although I don't believe he used that exact term) his power amplifiers by using certain types of components i.e resistors etc of different construction and materials, and he likened this to a chef adding herbs and spices to a curry.

[Firebottle]

But Alan you have said to me many times that your amps sound the way they do due to your linear circuit design and you would not use any old bits and bobs to throw your amps together, surely? You design your amps carefully selecting components and circuit design in order to make them sound the way they do?

Yes, the major influence is the actual circuit design, then using components of type and specification that are known not to influence the sound when they are used within the best circuit conditions.

In other words if the circuit conditions suit the particular component well then you don't need 'foo' capacitors for instance.

I'll explain in more detail when we get together next.

[sq225917]

Graphene fuse element, is it fuckers like.

Maybe wire coated in Graphene powder...

[RothwellAudio]

Here's some "info" from the website of one the fancy fuse manufacturers (about one of their other products):
"So we began researching variables that could contribute to the mystery of midnight vs. mid-day system performance and came to the conclusion that man-made and solar RF must play a significant role. This led us to research of factors that contribute to fluctions in the Earth’s ambient RF environment. Ted reasoned that if differences in RF can degrade the sound, then RF can be modeled and shaped to improve the sound.
There are three major disturbances on the Sun that affect radio propagation here on Earth. Solar Flares, Coronal Holes, and Sudden Disappearing Filament (SDF). Each disturbance causes both electromagnetic radiation and ejection of material from the Sun that alters RF on Earth. What we looked at was how each of these disturbances affects our RF environment during the day vs late at night with the intention to mimic late night conditions to improve sound mid-day..."

And it goes on. Make of it what you will.

[Jimbo]

Sounds very reasonable.