Wasn't gonna post this...

[JohnJo]

Piccy no worky......

Marco.

Displaying on my iPad.

Here's the link.

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents...6b81363fce.pdf

[Marco]

Dat's better... The link works, but the pic doesn't, using Chrome, as a browser.

Marco.

[09mike69]

There exists the possibility of another explanation here. I'm with Jez that the fuse cannot made an audible difference, however I believe Gaz when he says he heard a difference. How can the two be reconciled? The first possibility is expectation bias. The second possibility is an overlooked variable. Let me digress slightly for a moment.

I once heard a tale about a miraculous horse that could do maths. The horse was asked to do some simple arithmetic and it would give the answer by stomping its hoof a number of times. It was correct with nearly every question! How could it do it? It turned out that there was no deception on the part of the horse's owner, but there was an overlooked variable - the reaction of the observers. When the horse had stamped its hoof the correct number of times the observers would subtly change their body posture and facial expressions and the horse would pick up on that and stop stamping. When this overlooked variable was spotted the horse's miraculous ability was shown to be something else entirely.

So how does that relate to the "magic fuse"? Well, it would be entirely understandable that before replacing a fuse the equipment is turned off and disconnected from the mains. Maybe the volume control was turned down too. Without taking some measures to ensure the system was played at exactly the same volume after the fuse was replaced it would be quite possible for the playback volume to be a smidge louder. A smidge louder often leads to a better sound. So the observer does detect a real improvement, but it isn't due to the replaced fuse. It's just an overlooked variable.

Anyway, that's just something to ponder.

those horses where trained with food,, same as the pavlovs dog experiment.

[09mike69]

Well that's a great pity because everyone is indeed wrong on these and all other matters about fuses, which of course never effect sound under any circumstances.
To me this is a matter of deep concern as yet again we see people running round like headless chickens in pursuit of a wholly mythical "potential upgrade".
There is as much chance of these having an effect as there is of there being an actual pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.... the sad thing is one doesn't usually find oneself having to explain to adults that there isn't really a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

There are clever marketing people out there who exploit the fact that to the non technical electricity is "magic" and many people seem to want to believe in these things... so long as it is a simple unplug one thing and plug in another. This is something I keep going on about as I think it says it all: Take the lid off your pre amp DAC whatever and look how many parts there are. Now, why should it be the only part which you can simply unplug and then plug a new one in, without soldering, which should be so important to the sound? You've been had!

10+ pages now of chasing rainbows.... and if I started a thread, again concerning the quality of the power, but this time pertaining to areas that actually matter and are important, lets say the output impedance versus frequency of the voltage regulation, it would be lucky to get a page of comments because people find it too technical and so don't want to know!

I've used this analogy before but it's worth repeating. This is like watching a group of enthusiastic but non technical petrol heads discussing whether go faster stripes really make the car faster... and seeing many of them agreeing that they do (), and then when a real automotive engineer turns up and explains that go faster stripes cannot possibly actually make it faster, and to do that you need to re-map the fuel injection and fit higher lift camshafts, they all stick their fingers in their ears and go "la la la la la we don't want to know, too technical and we're not going to listen to you so go away"

Have fun gluing them stripes on folks, I'll be expecting 0 - 60 times next week...

the OP clearly heard a difference....to HIS ears, as he said....we dont have his ears. i am not claiming there is no benefit to these fuses....just simply this.... i appreciate arkless electronics educated input on matters such as these...level_headed ?...yes... insulting ?.. i didnt think so... agreeable ?...no...

diplomatic ? lol, fuck no..... relevant ? YES definitely.. theres too much snake oil in this game..an it can be expensive...
i really appreciate his opinion
keep it coming, buddy.
p.s. great thread,,,got us all talkin eh

[JohnJo]

I run my amp and CD player from a short 2 gang extension lead. I intend to replace the fuse in it tonight with some copper wire and see what I hear, or don't hear, just for my own interest (each piece of equipment has its own fuse in their plugs anyway). From an engineering POV I'm with Jez on this one but I also been around long enough to realise not everything is explainable so keeping an open mind.

Well, this is interesting

Stripped a bit of tri-rated (read flexible multi strand) 1.5mm2 single copper cable and wrapped it around the two fuse posts in the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper in place. EVERYTHING is better sounding. Had it in and out a few times but you'd be deaf not to hear the difference. Spurred on by this I then wired this copper straight into the live terminal along with the live cable and just wrapped it around the live pin of the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper to the pin.

There's a refinement (removal of distortion), and a silence to backgrounds that has improved the soundstage in all directions. Sounds are much better placed and detail is just popping out. There's increased emotional conveyance too I think due to the improved dynamics.

I am hearing further into the mix for sure and you can appreciate the musicians' skills more.

My preconceptions were that this was a waste of time but I was wrong. All I can think is that this has lowered the impedance of the mains supply.

Oh, volume control wasn't touched during comparisons.

Thanks Gaz for posting.

[Gazjam]

Well, this is interesting

Stripped a bit of tri-rated (read flexible multi strand) 1.5mm2 single copper cable and wrapped it around the two fuse posts in the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper in place. EVERYTHING is better sounding. Had it in and out a few times but you'd be deaf not to hear the difference. Spurred on by this I then wired this copper straight into the live terminal along with the live cable and just wrapped it around the live pin of the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper to the pin.

There's a refinement (removal of distortion), and a silence to backgrounds that has improved the soundstage in all directions. Sounds are much better placed and detail is just popping out. There's increased emotional conveyance too I think due to the improved dynamics.

I am hearing further into the mix for sure and you can appreciate the musicians skills more.

My preconceptions were that this was a waste of time but I was wrong. All I can think is that this has lowered the impedance of the mains supply.

Oh, volume control wasn't touched during comparisons.

Thanks Gaz for posting.

[Gazjam]

the OP clearly heard a difference....to HIS ears, as he said....we dont have his ears. i am not claiming there is no benefit to these fuses....just simply this.... i appreciate arkless electronics educated input on matters such as these...level_headed ?...yes... insulting ?.. i didnt think so... agreeable ?...no...

diplomatic ? lol, fuck no..... relevant ? YES definitely.. theres too much snake oil in this game..an it can be expensive...
i really appreciate his opinion
keep it coming, buddy.
p.s. great thread,,,got us all talkin eh

Fair comment, and Jez is a good guy with knowledge most of us dont have.
Everyones default position should be to call out bullshit when we see it.

[Barry]

Well, this is interesting

Stripped a bit of tri-rated (read flexible multi strand) 1.5mm2 single copper cable and wrapped it around the two fuse posts in the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper in place. EVERYTHING is better sounding. Had it in and out a few times but you'd be deaf not to hear the difference. Spurred on by this I then wired this copper straight into the live terminal along with the live cable and just wrapped it around the live pin of the plug and popped the fuse back in to hold the copper to the pin.

There's a refinement (removal of distortion), and a silence to backgrounds that has improved the soundstage in all directions. Sounds are much better placed and detail is just popping out. There's increased emotional conveyance too I think due to the improved dynamics.

I am hearing further into the mix for sure and you can appreciate the musicians skills more.

My preconceptions were that this was a waste of time but I was wrong. All I can think is that this has lowered the impedance of the mains supply.

Oh, volume control wasn't touched during comparisons.

Thanks Gaz for posting.

Let's assume the fuse was one of 3A rating. As such it consists of a piece of copper wire 0.15mm diameter, 25.4mm long. At 50Hz this will have an impedance of 0.025 + j4.10^-7Ohm.

Adding your piece of 1.5mm² copper wire in parallel with the fuse will reduce this impedance to 0.0003 + j2.10^-7Ohm.

A reduction in impedance certainly, but the typical source impedance of the UK mains (measured at the socket) is 0.25 + j0.23Ohm, so the reduction in overall source impedance is negligable. That is, you have gone from a source impedance of:

0.2750 + j0.2300004 Ohm

to

0.2503 + j0.2300002 Ohm.

You clearly heard what you heard, but I find it difficult to understand that it was down to reduced mains source impedance.

[Gazjam]

The really interesting thing then Barry is working out what it was that caused the improvement that John heard.
Assuming improvement...what do you think might be a factor?

[Barry]

The really interesting thing then Barry is working out what it was that caused the improvement that John heard.
Assuming improvement...what do you think might be a factor?

To be honest I don't know. All I can surmise is the fuse clips and/or the fuse end caps must have been heavily tarnished, and/or the pins of the plug must also have been tarnished/dirty. In removing the plug to 'modify' the fuse these contacts were cleaned. But even so, I find it hard to believe that alone could account for what John heard.

I have at least 12 mains plug/socket interfaces in my system. I'm reluctant to de-mate and re-mate them all, to hear if there is a difference. I once tried an audiophile fuse given to me at an audio show I attended. Can't say it made any difference whatsoever to my ears, but obviously it could/would to some.