Opinions on Tribute SUTs

[anubisgrau]

If we go back to the question asked by the OP, I would say that if you can get Tribute SUTs designed for your MC cart, then get them and you will not be disappointed.

Exactly, just as with some other top end manufacturers, such as Intact Audio who can wind a perfectly matched product for your favorite cartridge and is inexpensive (compared to how it sounds). I would also expect that Lundahl can do a custom job if you cant get an off shelf solution (though I would avoid their products for a direct comparison with top level head-amps, Lundahl SUTs actually sound too much like a head amp themselves )

[Arkless Electronics]

Another step up option is of course the valve head amp. I made one and used it for a couple of years, 4 triodes in parallel per channel. VERY good sound but rather impractical for all but the really keen as only the lowest noise samples of valves available can be used.... A valve which seems totally quiet in an MM phono stage can hiss and crackle like hell when used in this sensitive an application! I got sick of trying to keep it in valves which were quiet enough in the end.... A good set could start to go off and produce rustling sounds etc sometimes in as little as a week or two after fitting them
I have heard that some disc seal microwave triodes can be much more reliable and quieter in this application but I haven't tried them myself, mine used 4 x ECC88.

It seems a non starter as a commercial product on the grounds that one cannot really sell a valve head amp to someone with the caveat that "although the unit itself is guaranteed for 10 years I can't guarantee the valves for even a week and you are on your own on the valve front"....

[mac72]

A valve which seems totally quiet in an MM phono stage can hiss and crackle like hell when used in this sensitive an application! I got sick of trying to keep it in valves which were quiet enough in the end.... A good set could start to go off and produce rustling sounds etc sometimes in as little as a week or two after fitting them

From my experience with Ecc88 keeping heater-cathode voltage fairly low helped to reduce all crackling and rustling noises to minimum , did you try to elevate heaters

[montesquieu]

Another step up option is of course the valve head amp. I made one and used it for a couple of years, 4 triodes in parallel per channel. VERY good sound but rather impractical for all but the really keen as only the lowest noise samples of valves available can be used.... A valve which seems totally quiet in an MM phono stage can hiss and crackle like hell when used in this sensitive an application! I got sick of trying to keep it in valves which were quiet enough in the end.... A good set could start to go off and produce rustling sounds etc sometimes in as little as a week or two after fitting them
I have heard that some disc seal microwave triodes can be much more reliable and quieter in this application but I haven't tried them myself, mine used 4 x ECC88.

It seems a non starter as a commercial product on the grounds that one cannot really sell a valve head amp to someone with the caveat that "although the unit itself is guaranteed for 10 years I can't guarantee the valves for even a week and you are on your own on the valve front"....

You just reminded me, I had an Audion two-box valve head amp for a while, pricey it was too ... gain was high on it but my word it was dynamic.

Just as you say though Jez it was noisy (hiss rather than rustle) but to be fair I think part of that was due to the sheer amount of gain it was pushing.

[Arkless Electronics]

From my experience with Ecc88 keeping heater-cathode voltage fairly low helped to reduce all crackling and rustling noises to minimum , did you try to elevate heaters

Heater to cathode was just a couple of volts... it wasn't cascoded.

[Barry]

....... But can't we have more moderate rhetoric, for heaven's sake? There seems to be something about online forums that brings out the suburban warrior in a lot of folks. It's not uncommon to read posts talking about how "my amp kills amp XZ", or "I heard a [insert name] system at a friend's house, and my system stamped all over it". It's a hobby for Pete's sake! Making comparisons is fine, and in fact it's a large part of what we like about forums. But we don't need playground warfare.
IB

Thoroughly agree with you there Gary.

We all hear differently - my ears are not the same as yours, and we all have different priorities with what we want from our systems: tonal accuracy, dynamics, transparancy, lack of colouration, leading edge attack, 'black' silences, 'atmosphere', 'air', lack of grain, resolution of low level detail, 'musicality', accurate soundstaging, focus, etc. etc. .... . How we get there will obviously vary from one system to another, depending on those priorities - there is no one system that gets it all right It's all a matter of taste, not of being 'right or wrong'.

Whenever I read a strongly worded post of the kind you mentioned, I always mentally prefix it with the words "in my opinion", as that is exactly what it is - an opinion.

[Arkless Electronics]

You just reminded me, I had an Audion two-box valve head amp for a while, pricey it was too ... gain was high on it but my word it was dynamic.

Just as you say though Jez it was noisy (hiss rather than rustle) but to be fair I think part of that was due to the sheer amount of gain it was pushing.

Ahhhh... the opposite in fact As it's so hissy, the gain needs to be pushed up to make sure that at the volume control setting you are using in practice, the volume is high enough that you don't get bothered by the hiss

very low noise electronics is tricky but rewarding and gain structure is very important here. Your valve head amp would have been almost certainly a single stage topology and basically it is not going to amplify its own noise too much... so we are left with a set amount of noise present.. the more we can amplify the signal to be above this noise floor, the greater the signal to noise ratio. Hence also why my MC only phono stges can give much lower noise still compared to my best stand alone head amps going into a MM stage... all gain structure

[Arkless Electronics]

Thoroughly agree with you there Gary.

We all hear differently - my ears are not the same as yours, and we all have different priorities with what we want from our systems: tonal accuracy, dynamics, transparancy, lack of colouration, leading edge attack, 'black' silences, 'atmosphere', 'air', lack of grain, resolution of low level detail, 'musicality', accurate soundstaging, focus, etc. etc. .... . How we get there will obviously vary from one system to another, depending on those priorities - there is no one system that gets it all right It's all a matter of taste, not of being 'right or wrong'.

Whenever I read a strongly worded post of the kind you mentioned, I always mentally prefix it with the words "in my opinion", as that is exactly what it is - an opinion.

Good post...

[farflungstar]

How would anyone compare a top line Paul Hynes custom build to going the SUT route. After speaking to him he could build specifically for the shilabe....
Weighing up options...
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

[Arkless Electronics]

How would anyone compare a top line Paul Hynes custom build to going the SUT route. After speaking to him he could build specifically for the shilabe....
Weighing up options...
Adey

In perpetual pursuit.

Well that's a bit deflating.... after the amount of input I've put into the thread in trying to vindicate head amps as a suitable rival for SUT's at the top level.... Anyhow mine is suitable for the Shilabe as well and half the price Not that there is anything out of the ordinary about the shilabe to require a head amp to be customised to it according to the specs... pretty standard 0.24mV output (a bit lower than the average but still in the "normal" range) and 16 Ohms internal resistance .... I guess at least if I've piqued interest in high end head amps in general it's a start

I will say both that Marco did prefer the Hynes (which I'm sure is superb) to mine after trying them both and bought one, (in a long review over the phone from Marco he said mine was the best head amp he'd ever heard,,, until he tried the Hynes about a week later) but also, in defence of my offering, it was the MkI that Marco tried and before it had had further upgrades fitted. Also that, at half the Hynes £1500 price, mine was not fitted with boutique parts etc and so there would be more to come from it there no doubt